Mindset Matters: Inspiring and Empowering Women in Real Estate with Entrepreneur Deborah Razo

Deborah Razo: 0:00

I am a huge mindset person like, you know, you want to change your life and you want to get passive income or whatever it is you're hoping real estate will do for you. It's not going to only be the strategy and the you know how to actually implement the skill sets that you need to do it. It's going to be your mindset and how you have to change. It's the two together that are really going to make the change.

Announcer: 0:23

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Jason Muth: 0:47

Hello, hello. Welcome to The Real Estate Law Podcast. It's another episode here with Jason Muth and Rory Gill attorney broker NextHome Titletown Real Estate and UrbanVillage Legal in Boston. Rory, we have an esteemed guest here. Today we're going to be speaking with the founder of the Women's Real Estate Network. And we're so grateful to have her on the podcast today. We'd love to learn more about her story, why she founded the Women's Real Estate Network, what she's learned along the way, some of her investments for self and Rory, what do you think about groups like this, there's a lot of affinity groups in the in the real estate space where people are coming together under a common umbrella and learning among themselves. Welcome, Deborah. How are you?

Rory Gill: 1:23

I know, I'm from my experience groups like this had been tremendously important to me as I built my career in law and in real estate from Starting Out Solo, a small bar association that was specifically meant for people who started their own practice right out of law school, the MLGBQTBA and other organizations that really have just provided people with great resources. They're building their own careers. So I'm always happy to explore the work that everybody else is doing. And I'd love to welcome Deborah on to the podcast.

Deborah Razo: 1:56

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Jason. Thank you, Rory, for having me on the podcast. I really appreciate it. I'm great today.

Jason Muth: 2:03

Awesome. Well great. You're out in California. It's always a great day in California.

Deborah Razo: 2:07

It's always a great day in California. Oh, except for yesterday, which was tax day.

Jason Muth: 2:14

Well, if you're a real estate investor, that could be a good day for you. For us, it's a good day.

Deborah Razo: 2:19

You can also but you know, they say it's sunshine sunshine tax out here.

Jason Muth: 2:24

Yes, exactly. You know, here in Massachusetts, they used to call it Taxachusetts. But you know, I've been here for 20 years, I just haven't had that sense. Rory, what am I missing? Do I just have good accounting or bad accounting?

Rory Gill: 2:35

Well I mean, we have bad branding. But whenever we look at the tax burden per capita, we tend to be about 25th out of 50. So we're not a low tax state, but we're not really leading the country in terms of high tax burden.

Jason Muth: 2:48

Yeah, California certainly has the tax burden there. Where are you in California?

Deborah Razo: 2:52

Los Angeles. Yeah,

Jason Muth: 2:54

What part of LA? I love LA.

Deborah Razo: 2:56

Burbank. Are you familiar with Burbank?

Jason Muth: 2:58

I've been to Burbank many times, I flew into Burbank once. Yeah, I used to, I used to travel out there a lot for a couple jobs go back when I worked in the media business. I was I had a lot of clients out in Los Angeles. So that was always a fun trip. Yeah. So Deborah, tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us about the Women's Real Estate Network. When did you found that? Why did you find it found it? What have you learned about being part of a group like that?

Deborah Razo: 3:22

Right. So I have been an entrepreneur for over 30 years, but I've only been in real estate about the last 14. I had an accident of my life that kind of changed my direction, which we can talk about if you want to later. But you know, I was I was in real estate and I was flipping like, mainly right. And so my whole idea or my investment philosophy at that time was to flip for capital. And then I would reinvest the capital in buy and hold for cash flow, because my ultimate goal was cash flowing in right? I'd read the purple little purple book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad. After that, I bought into it all and that's what I was doing. So it's flipping in California. And at that time, I was reinvesting in single family homes in Memphis, Tennessee, there was a point at which a bunch of the big capital companies came in and started buying up a lot of the flips. And I was really like, really, you know, frustrated in this business. Now, anybody who's ever been in this business a while those that frustration comes with the territory. It can be a very frustrating business, but I was very frustrated with this business I'd kept I couldn't seem to get my next flip. And I just kind of was feeling like where the girls were whereby ladies around me and it's, you know, no difference. I've had tons of great, you know, education and stuff from guys. But women look at things a little differently. And I just wanted to surround myself with some ladies. So I actually ended up calling a bunch of friends who were full time real estate investors, not all flippers like there's a couple of women that own storage units. There was a note woman there's a few of us and we all had lunch on one Sunday. A M, we did what women do, which is like, Oh, I'm having a problem here. Does anybody have a foundation guy? Or I'm having a, you know, legal issue here? Does anybody have a good, you know, 10, an attorney, whatever it was, and at the end of that lunch, I said, I was thinking about doing this quarterly. And somebody goes, no, let's do it, you know, every other month. And sure enough, people started opening up their homes, and there was always wine involved. And we got together, and we told each other our real estate woes, and we helped each other, you know, and, and then I realized, at some point, after we have been meeting for a while that there is a whole lot of other women that that didn't get the benefit that I was getting, from meeting with all these really experienced investors. And I thought, well, let's maybe I start a meet up. And that's when WREN really started, I started a meetup in Los Angeles. I took women from that group. And we, and we featured them and as speakers, and they talked about their business models. And then we started gathering, right? And then a friend of mine came to one of our meetings and said, I want to do one of those in Seattle, and then another friend came and next thing I know, you know, we have like, 11 chapters all over the US right before COVID hit. So you know, it's just kind of grew. Because there was this need to see each other succeed, really, and to help each other succeed. And I think that one of the things that I think that is really great about our group is that, I think when we see other people like us, meaning women, like women who are mothers and wives and daughters, and taking care of a lot of stuff, doing like, what we want to do, it makes us it opens up our minds to like, oh, that's possible for me, I can do that, you know, we identify with it. And I know that I've taken advantage of that I, I met a woman up at our Seattle chapter who was a developer and I went up to her and I was like, hey, you know, meet meet very women. There were very many women developers. And she was like, Well, you're a flipper, right? I used to be a flipper. Developing is so much easier. And we had this long conversation, and I came back to LA, and it just opened up the product that that opportunity for me, and the next thing, you know, I'm developing fourplexes, right? And I'm like, okay, see, you know, we all have to have our people, you know, around us that can, you know, open up our vision to what's possible for us. And for me, that was other women that were in this business, you know, so, yeah, it's been a really great source of inspiration and resources, you know, and that those first women that I had our first brunch with, they ended up becoming financial friends, like, I've linked to them, they've led to me, we've JV'ed together. And I mean, this business is great for that, you know, taking other experienced people and putting together your resources and your time and your energy and making money for everyone. It's, it's, it's credible.

Rory Gill: 8:03

You're highlighting, like two things that I just really love about the real estate community. And from the outside is almost surprising. But everybody, you know, first of everybody wants to see everybody else succeed and everybody else has been, in my experience, been so open and sharing their histories, their struggles and tips, to the point that it's really a welcoming community, even if we're competing against each other in some aspects of the business or certain certain deals, the community is very supportive of each other. But also, the community has been really great at kind of inspiring us and making us feel like what we are imagining is possible, or even prodding us to think bigger and bigger. So I'm really happy to hear that, you know, that's been part of your experience. And you know, you're also talking about a group that underrepresented in the real estate development space. And that's women. And I just kind of want to ask, you know, pretty directly, what, what are some of the challenges that women in the space are facing? How has your group and how have you helped other women in the space overcome those obstacles?

Deborah Razo: 9:30

Well, it's really interesting, you know, I don't I didn't actually bring my stats with me. But you know, in the long run, women tend to be better investors than men. Sorry to say, like, you know, we make we make a lot of really good investment decisions. And I think part of that is because, you know, I don't know, we're kind of natural shoppers, you know, if a woman is like really wanting something that we know what that good price is, and we can like hone in on it and grab it, except when it comes to big ticket items. And you know, what I found in our community is that, you know, when it comes to big ticket items, and they're in and there's a lot more involved in it, there's a lack of some confidence that they can do this and they can really make this happen. And so we have a saying in our organization that you can borrow my confidence, right? Our group is a real mix of both experienced and newbie women investers. And I think it really helps not only the newbies, but it also helps, you know, hear another experienced investor go, you could do this, like, I'll give you my confidence. Go ahead, I looked at the numbers, do it, you know what I mean? Because I think you just need that sometimes that extra encouragement to sign on the line and put in the offer and open escrow, you know, and I think that's just a matter of how we do business, you know, and it's a matter of gaining that confidence muscle, so to speak, so that you can let it out with you have it.

Jason Muth: 10:58

There's so much I love about this story. So far, everything you've said, the support that you're giving to other people, where you founded a group with them and have multiple chapters for the confidence you're instilling upon each other, you know, the fact that, again, we've said this many times, it's not a zero sum game, like your success doesn't mean I have to fail. And I think that your group really highlights that. You know, women in this space, like when we go to the typical meetup, we don't see too many women, it seems to be a lot of guys that come to the meetups. And there are some women that are there. So I understand the need to maybe have your own community and your own space to be able to have those conversations that maybe you don't feel comfortable having in front of the some very Type A boisterous men that come to these, these real estate meetups because we've all been there, right? And they're there. We don't even like speaking up sometimes at these, these situations where, you know, there's somebody that's controlling the room. And it does not surprise me that women can be better investors than men in this space. Like it just by no means is a surprise me. I've been to a number of short term rental conferences lately. And there are a lot of women in that space, which is good to see. And, in fact, we had a guest on this podcast, Natalie Palmer, who put on her own conference in Scottsdale this year, Level Up Your Listing, and it was a conference for women and I got to meet her in person at in Nashville recently at another conference. And, you know, I, I get it, I get why the space is important. So I give you a lot of credit for for building this. One other thing that you that you touched upon early on, you know, with your career, you had an inflection point in your career, where this is now kind of your second chapter of your career that you've been doing 13 years, 14 years, whatever it whatever you mentioned there, which, you know, I would argue is that's a career unto itself. You probably reinvented yourself in the second career a little later on your life. Right? Talk a little bit about that. And what that was, like, you know, like, all of a sudden you have an identity, we now you have a second identity that you have to build up which, you know, in us meeting for the first time here, this is all we know you as. But what was it like when you had to switch that identity into this real estate world?

Deborah Razo: 13:09

It was a conscious, very direct choice. And I'll tell you a little bit of the story. You know, I've been an entrepreneur for a long time, and it had several different businesses. But I think it's about 14 years now. I had an opportunity to start over as part of the late being people out there listening that have had that kind of opportunity, right? I'm sure. Well, it's the death of a loved one or a divorce. Or maybe for some people it was COVID I don't know, right? Mine was a car accident. I was helping a friend and we were driving and a tire blew and the car went into the dirt and it rolled and it rolled driver's side first. So I got the brunt of the the impact of the car. And I was rushed to a hospital and after stitching up my head wound and told that I had a broken neck. And that was the beginning of about a year long healing journey for my body. And during that time, I had a lot of time to think. And you know, I think that's what happens when you have those opportunities in your life to kind of pivot. You know, you think, Am I really leading, you know, leading my best life. And I didn't have a bad life I love what I did was it really my best life and it was like, You know what, I want to travel the world I want to I want to show my kids that you can do anything you set your mind to, and I want that passive income, you know, because I need to be able to afford the life I want. And I started literally googling passive income towards the end of my physical you know, ordeal and a lot of things come up, you know, royalties, real estate, real estate. I got give me some of that. You know, and my brother who was really kind in taking care of me during that time he had already been doing a bunch of Tony Robbins stuff. And he said you know if you really want to change your life, maybe you shouldn't do this after your you've healed. And I did I really realized I had been running my entrepreneurial businesses as actually forming jobs for myself. Right? I was an operator in my business. I wasn't the owner of my business, right? I was working it every day, I had created my own job. And I didn't know how to make that shift mindset wise. So I started doing Tony Robbins events and man I drank the Kool Aid. I, I went to all the events, and eventually I actually started working for him, I'm a trainer for him for some of his live events, I come out and I help people make the transitions in their lives that they want. But what I learned along that way is, you know, I'm a huge mindset person, like, you know, you want to change your life and you want to get passive income, or whatever it is you're hoping real estate will do for you, it's not going to only be the strategy and the you know how to actually implement the skill sets that you need to do it, it's going to be your mindset, and how you have to change, it's the two together that are really going to make the change. And I really needed that kind of education to help me make the change into what I wanted. And I'm just really a huge proponent of self improvement. And I'm a huge proponent in understanding your own mindset, and being able to mitigate whatever fears or lacks or anything that you might think you have to achieving whatever it is that you want to achieve. You know, and I still I still have coaches, I still, you know, along my way, you know, after being out of the rat race for quite some time now, you know, so it's like, you know, you still have to figure out what your next steps are. And a lot of that has to do with mindset, you know, so and that's why I got into real estate. And luckily.

Jason Muth: 16:58

It also shows that you can't go it alone. You know, regardless, if you physically need help from someone like your brother, an angel like him, or people in your life that you've met at meetups along the way, or at Tony Robbins events, you know, you're you're adding to your skill set, you're adding to your network, and you're adding to people that could help you in some way. And you can help those people in some way. You know, we all could help people in some way that probably we don't realize. We just posted something today. I just put up a new property that we just listed this one right here. Is that the one Rory that I get the right house?

Rory Gill: 17:31

You have the right hat on you? Yes.

Jason Muth: 17:32

All right. I just got my ads. Today, I'm super excited about my hats, we got a hat for each of our properties and for our business. But we just posted this today. And I heard from somebody that is looking for somewhere to host a bachelor party as good friend of ours, one of the bachelors people in the groom's party is in a wheelchair, and we happen to have a ramp leading into the house. And we're thinking possibly this could be a place that they could host they've had a hard time looking for it. You literally never know how you can help somebody and how people can help you if you're just sitting there trying to do it yourself. And that's one thing that you've built with WREN in that, I'm guessing, teaching the people that are part of your group, that you don't have to go it alone, right. There's a community of people to help.

Deborah Razo: 18:13

Yeah, absolutely. And I think you can take that in, like several different directions. I know, for me, prior to real estate, I was kind of a lone wolf entrepreneur, right? Ran my own business, you know, work my own job, you know, a deal that, and there was a point at which, you know, when I set my, you know, out of the rat race number, you know, I was accumulating single families in Memphis, Tennessee and the, hey, what do you know, my debt to income ratio was bad, and I couldn't get any more. And I'm like, Oh, my God, I have to change what I'm doing. Right. And then I switched over to development into multifamily. Right. And I mean, this is progression over years, right, I did jump in, I think some people do it, they're wild, crazy and lucky for them. But you know, I also realized, Oh, I'm gonna have to partner more, oh, I'm gonna have to, you know, it's not lonewolf anymore, right? It's going to be me, and partners, me and other people that are all going to have have it helped work together. But when you actually do that, that the brain trust that you're bringing to the party, the money resources, you're bringing to the party, the experience resources that you're bringing to the party, it can be really amazing, you know, and then everybody can, you know, participate in something that's successful and making money. And, you know, that's, that's a wonderful feeling, but it really takes cooperation.

Jason Muth: 20:15

So, can you talk a bit about finding partners, and how you've gone about doing it, and maybe some of your recommendations that you have with members of WREN, and the other groups that you participate in? What are some good, good ways that people can partner up?

Deborah Razo: 20:28

You know, Wow, there's so many ways that you can partner up you know, I think everything from you know, finding deals if somebody's really great at finding deals and wants to, but doesn't know how to close on a deal or fund a deal. You know, they can always be part of the closing and the funding by and taking some you know, passive income or some cash flow from the deal. If you're a passive investor and you want to just invest in a deal, you know, then there's always that avenue to put your money to work and be part of the partnership. If you're great at running numbers and you know, putting together asset managing The deals right, then there's always that. I think there's so many different aspects that you can be really good at, you know that there's a lot of different players that can participate. And I think part of the process of getting partnerships, because I've had partners that haven't worked out, right, like, I think if you learn anything, well, if you've ever been married and divorced, you know that all partnerships do not end well. And so, you know, it's also about getting to know somebody, like, I rush into partnerships, you know, I, you want to get to know what the person's about a little bit about their character, what their values are, what they're looking to get out of this business partnership, right? Because it's going to tell you a lot. You're going to be intimate in your money matters, because how you run a business is all about how you're running your money. So you've got to get to know how they do that. So that you can figure that out. A lot of times when I was just starting the partner, I would use investors passive income to gap fund or to fund something, and I did learn about them, you know, it's a great opportunity to learn about them. And when you're just doing it for flipping, you know, you're you're learning about them for like a project six months, right? And then you decide if you want to do something together again, right? Figure that out from there, it's better than taking on somebody that you barely know, for project that's gonna last three to five years. Right. So you know that it's a process. I think it's a process for me for everyone. I mean, look at your partnership.

Jason Muth: 22:35

I know, right? Yeah. So far, it works out. Right, Rory? I don't know.

Rory Gill: 22:40

So far. Yes.

Jason Muth: 22:41

So we've discovered a lot about our partnership also, lately. I mean, Rory is very has his businesses, and I worked a W-2 job until last year. And then we have this business, which is called Straightforward Short-Term Rentals. We had this on the side, but now it's really a formal thing. And you know, last year, Rory kind of jumped into Straightforward Short-Term Rentals a bit more than I thought he would, and really helped clean up the books and get things in line, because he had a skill set that I didn't have, which was, you know, running QuickBooks and really understanding that. I could learn it from the ground up, but he already did it. And he did it without me even asking. And next thing I know, I have all these P&L's that he developed for me, which was, you know, fantastic. And I'm like, alright, well, maybe this is something you should do more for this business. I actually, I learned how to snap receipts and put it into the QuickBooks app. So I'm proud of myself for that. Yeah, I know. It's It's good. It's good skill to have. But you know, Rory comment a bit about how Deborah's talked about finding partners, you know, you've worked with a lot of people in your real estate career, both in the law side, and as a broker, you've worked with partnerships along the way, like, what are some of the good ones that you've seen work out and why?

Rory Gill: 23:45

I can talk about partnerships and everything that I've worked in advise, but I'll say something a little more personal at the start. And that is, you know, you she's touched upon kind of the the two biggest mistakes that I've made along the way in developing my businesses, particularly the early phases of the law practice. And that is I very much went it alone, thinking that that was safer that that was smarter that I would wouldn't entangle myself with somebody else. And I would always be in charge. But the problem with going it alone is it's entrepreneurship can be very lonely, when you're working at on your own. And your brain trust is limited to one. So you're, you're not developing and growing, and you're not as excited and growing the enterprises you otherwise could have. And she also kind of touched upon it there. You know, what she mentioned? You know, I hate bringing up the Kiyosaki books, but the, you know, Cashflow Quadrant idea where I just created myself a job, I was very much self employed. And wasn't, I built a job that required me to be there all the time. So those those two things went hand in hand and kind of shaped the feel of the early stages of my business. But you know, I've since then that's changed. I've had the privilege of partnering a little bit more. And as you suggested, Jason, I have had the privilege of working with some of the partnerships. And it's very similar in some ways to a marriage. And I like to have people who are starting a partnership, whether it's a single property, or it's a business, to actually just sit down and talk through what would happen in bad situations, what their expectations are, and draw up a formal agreement. And I don't think I've ever had to have anybody fall back on the formal written agreement that we put together for them. I think, in large part because by going through that exercise, you're actually addressing the questions in advance and coming to an understanding, you know, people think like, Well, what happens if one person goes personally bankrupt? What happens in there? What happens if one person just falls upon hard times? What's going to happen there? What happens if one person gets cold feet and really wants to exit the partnership? So I think when you're forming a partnership with somebody, you really have to have thoughtful, deliberate conversation about all eventualities and put as much as you can in writing. And hopefully, you'll never have to go back and look at that document again, but I think having that that, that in depth conversation is great whether you're talking about a marriage, or whether you're talking about a business partnership.

Jason Muth: 26:04

Deborah talk a bit about out the people who come to the WREN events, maybe for the first time, do you have a lot of events throughout the country of number of chapters at this point, like, you know, we you see a first time person there, what, what does that conversation like?

Deborah Razo: 26:17

Right, so we went online, you know, like everybody else during COVID, and we're just getting back out into the market. So we, we've started doing that by having some kind of quarterly specialized events. And, um, so our online events tend to have more appeal to newbies, because they're just kind of getting their feet wet and getting to know our organization, right. And so those are monthly events, and we have somebody who comes and speaks about a particular business model. And so it's different every month, right? So it could be short term rentals, month, one month, it could be long term rentals, it could be notes, it could be whatever, you know, whatever that business model is, we have some women that are coming to speak about industrial properties in the next upcoming months. And so, you know, they can come and they can get a taste of who we are and what our culture is, right? Because I've kind of explained to you yet what our culture is, like, we're very much like, okay, you know, hand in hand, and, you know, there is a genuine want to see each other succeed. And, and there is also some accountability, that, you know, you got to do the work, right. So, so that's, that's part of that. Our live events are very energetic, I'm from a Tony Robbins background, so I don't know how to time manage stuff packed into a day. Our last live event with last was just in March, we had what we called soar, and it was about women who have gone big. So we had eight women speakers, and over a billion of assets managed, so apartment complexes, hotels, industrial storage units, it was all women who are, who are owned and operated those and up and it was really amazing, you know, once again, like you said, you know, you go into a regular Real Estate Group, and you're really going to see men at the front of the room. And that's because they have a lot of experience talking in front of the room, because they've been in the business a long time. And women just don't get that much experience with that. And with WREN, we actually encourage our members to do that we're like, we have a program that we encourage them to do case studies on their on their own projects, so that they can get that experience of being in the front of the room, so that they can command a room, you know, at some point, and some here, women who operate, you know, a billion dollars worth of assets that are, you know, speaking in front of a room and, and talking about the finances of it and talking about how it impacts their family, and, you know, and how they're reading things at home, as well as running the business at work, you know, there's there can be and I don't think this is exclusive to women, like if you have a family at home, you know, you're feel guilty when you're at work and not at home, and then you feel guilty when you're at home and not at work. And there's a cycle of guilt and shame that happens. You know, and and it's it's okay, right? Like, it's okay, that we can talk about it and figure out our way around that and through that, so that we can all you know, prosper and get what we want, you know, in the end goal, you know, so yeah, and it's okay to, you know, honor yourself in wanting that.

Jason Muth: 29:33

Yeah, I want to make sure I say this correctly, you see a lot of younger guys that get into this space. And then the women, oftentimes they are their partners, that they get brought along the way to start, or they, you know, find their way in their 30s or 40s, that this is something that they want to do. I heard what I remember what Natalie talked once known for podcasts where she'd see a couple at a meet up. And the guy would be like the big, you know, boisterous personality that the real estate developer or the short term rental operator, and she'd say, oh, you know, so what do you do I talk to the wife, oh, I just do the design work and all the guests communication and all the bookkeeping, and I set up all the legal entities and, you know, I deal with the insurance company, but you know, just all that stuff. And she's like, so you're in charge of operations, you know, like, trying to empower her a little bit saying, like, you know, that's great that he's kind of getting all this credit, but you deserve a lot of this credit as well. Do you find that there are young women that are single that come into this space in your groups, because I haven't seen that that much. I think the young women are coming along with a guy and and they're kind of lockstep, or they're coming along with their female partner and they're lockstep or they're later on in their life, and it's something that they are doing together while they already have some young kids.

Deborah Razo: 30:45

You know, what, it's a lot of different women you know, I there have been women who've come into our group that are single moms that are doling out real estate to make it all work for them, you know, so that they can have time freedoms and flexibilities with their kids as they raise them and and have some income coming in. And there have been at home moms that you know, Have a good lifestyle, but want to be able to afford great vacations for their families and one of the supplements of family's income that way. I mean, it's just been such a wide range of women and such a wide age range and demographic, it really caters to every, you know, everybody, one of the things that I find interesting, and I guess this is just to sticks or whatever, but there are a lot of first generation American women here, I'm first generation, my parents are both born out of the United States, you know, and I think, I don't know, if it's, you know, you're brought up and you're feeling like, you know, this is the land of plenty, you better take advantage of it. I don't know what it is. But there are a lot of first generations in, in real estate in general, but it for women in particular, I find that, you know, somebody who is been brought to this country, or you know, or whose parents were born someplace else that are participating. I don't know why that is.

Jason Muth: 31:59

I don't know make maybe they see as a way that they have to kind of form their own path. And they're in charge of that, you know, they don't have parents to lean back on necessarily like maybe if they don't, they're not from generational wealth, it's certainly possible.

Deborah Razo: 32:10

Right and I think, you know, somebody who's come from another country to move here's got to be a bit of a risk taker. You know, like, even though I think in my family, I'm half Mexican, half Irish, right. And I think of my family, even though the motto was like, keep your head down work hard, right. It was never shoot for the stars. Right. beat that. Yeah. You know, it was it was a hard working or, you know, a work ethic, but it was also like two people who kind of took a chance and ended up here. Yeah, yeah, so I don't know.

Jason Muth: 32:39

Well, Mexican and Irish what an amazing combo. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you got Cinco De Mayo. St. Patrick's Day, double Catholic. Yes. That's great.

Deborah Razo: 32:50

We, we party, we confess.

Jason Muth: 32:56

You needed to get that on one of those like posters that you put into all like, you know, your office or in a short term rental, that will be funny. People take pictures in front of a T shirts, right? There's your new business idea. Let's get to our final questions that we ask all our guests on the podcast. So to wrap things up a little bit, and you could tell everyone how they can get involved with the women's real estate network. So these questions are very simple. They are not gotcha questions, they are just a way to get to know you a little bit better and to wrap up the interview.

Deborah Razo: 33:20

Let everybody gets to know me better.

Jason Muth: 33:22

We got to know you very, very well. But yeah, so these these might be like, you know, a total aside. First question if you can get on stage and talk for half an hour about any subject in the world with zero preparation. What would that be?

Deborah Razo: 33:35

It would be mindset, it would be understanding what's possible for people like I think sometimes that people don't understand that, you know, they sit back and think I wish I had or I wish I could, and I want to say you can, that's what I want to say, you know, is, you know, it would all be about mindset, and how can trip us up and how we can navigate around it.

Jason Muth: 33:57

You know, I've heard a lot about mindset lately, a lot of the people that are in the mastermind that I'm in talk about mindset, even people that are just in local real estate groups, I've just had lunch with somebody a couple days ago, and he was top of mindset. I never really thought about mindset during my career. You know, during my actual working for another company career, I think it's the kind of thing that we think about when we're either tired of that career or making that transition. And it's a very important conversation to have, internally, it's important to have their spouses and our partners and friends as well. But, you know, I don't discount that word Mindset by any means. It's something that more people should really think through when they when they have the chance to kind of get their mind in the right space.

Deborah Razo: 34:36

They have desire, right? Yeah.

Jason Muth: 34:39

You know, like, one thing I've thought about not to get grim or anything, and you certainly had a situation happen in your life that you know, was - You almost lost your life in a car accident, but you start counting down the years you have left, right, like from average life expectancy, like, you know, we're all going we're all gonna be in the ground at some point, right?

Deborah Razo: 34:55

No one gets out alive.

Jason Muth: 34:58

No one does, right? And they, you know, we're all guilty. You know, I was raised Catholic too. So you know, we're guilty the whole way on earth. And then, you know, no one gets out alive. You look at the amount of summers that you have left, and you want to make the best of those summers, right, you know, and when you're 20, you don't think about that. When you're 40, you think about a little bit more, and you say, Okay, well, how do I want to spend the rest of my time? The second question that you might have answered this one already. But it's tell us something that happened early in your life or career that impacts the way that you're working today.

Deborah Razo: 35:23

I would have to go back to the accident that happened, you know, if I look at that time now, and I think it was a wake up call. It was a wake up call, I'm really happy to have heard it, you know, because I got the opportunity to change things. And I think along with the opportunity comes a motivation, right? Like, oh, I don't want to go back there now. Now I have a new idea of what my life can be. And I want to make that happen. Right. So it was that opportunity. So yeah, I'd have to go to there. Yeah, I could have probably this having kids.

Jason Muth: 35:59

How many kids you have?

Deborah Razo: 36:00

Two

Jason Muth: 36:01

Two. Okay. Final question. course at the best of your life. Have the kids here. Tell us what you're listening to or reading or watching these days. Anything in the world.

Deborah Razo: 36:11

Yeah. Okay, so I just picked up. Never Eat Dinner Alone. Supposed to be networking book I literally just cracked it open. I haven't even read it yet. So I'm looking forward to reading that. Just because I think that's a great concept. You know, never you're never alone. You know we should be in community with each other. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm listening to P!nk's Greatest Hits right now. Like, I don't know why I'm so into her lately. She's just like, she's like a rebel and

Jason Muth: 36:39

She just put out new album recently also energy and I don't know, just she just

Deborah Razo: 36:48

I'm still in the greatest hits.

Jason Muth: 36:50

Have you seen her? Have you seen her in concert?

Deborah Razo: 36:52

No, but I want to see her do all that aerial work. Yeah. That looks fascinating to me. So yeah, probably no, you know, great stretch that I like a woman who is bold that thinks out of the box, right?

Jason Muth: 37:06

Why wouldn't you I mean, like I was just telling Rory about actually Mizunderstood came out over 20 years ago came out like in 2001 or 2002. And that album transformed her because I actually saw P!nk live back in the late 90s. Back when I worked in the radio world, and she was part of these like multi package festival concerts that would be these outdoor sheds where she, you know, get 20 minutes to play in front of the in front of the the band that was setting up when the curtain was down where she'd be singing, you know, on top of a track before she was really what she's become. And then when, you know, Mizunderstood, came out. Like she kind of made a statement and said, I'm not that r&R&B girl. I'm this instead. And then it just took off afterward. And I have not seen her with the acrobatics. But she's actually she's touring this year. I mean, I think that you know, when this podcast comes out, it'll just be a couple months until I think she's coming back to Fenway Park. I believe here in Boston. I'm sure she's coming to LA.

Deborah Razo: 37:56

Yeah, I love down here. I think she'd be really like a kick in person, you know?

Jason Muth: 38:00

Yeah. Yeah. Well, hopefully you can make your way to a P!nk concert at some point this year in the future. So Deborah, tell everybody where they could learn more about you and get linked up with WREN if they want to learn more, but the Women's Real Nstate network.

Deborah Razo: 38:12

So WREN is wreninspires.com. If you're looking to look at our website, and we have a calendar of events there, and we're WREN inspires on Facebook, on Twitter on Instagram, we're WREN inspires everywhere. And if you're looking to connect with me personally, it's just deborahrazo.com. And I'd be happy to connect with you. schedule a call with me or whatever you need. And and we can go from there.

Jason Muth: 38:40

All right, that sounds great. Rory, where can people get a hold of you?

Rory Gill: 38:43

Um, you could find me either through my real estate brokerage. That's Next Home Titletown nexthometitletown.com. Or my law practice UrbanVillage Legal. That's UrbanVillagelegal.com.

Jason Muth: 38:54

All right. Thank you. And if you want to get a hold of me if you'd like to be a guest on the podcast, or have comments, questions for me, for Deborah, for any of us, you could find me Jason@nexthometitletown.com. That's it. That's a wrap. That's another episode. Deborah, it's been a pleasure to get to know you a little bit better. We wish you the best with Women's Real Estate Network and all your investments. So thank you so much for being part of this podcast.

Deborah Razo: 39:17

Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's been great getting to know you guys too.

Jason Muth: 39:20

We'll have to do it again down the line after you've seen P!nk. Yeah. And thank you for listening. If you've enjoyed this, we read all your comments. So please leave a comment if you want to give us a five star review. We love five star reviews and nothing less. Thank you so much for listening or watching us. We'll see you next time.

Announcer: 39:37

This has been The Real Estate Law Podcast. Because real estate is more than just pretty pictures and law goes well beyond the paperwork and courtroom arguments. were powered by NextHome Titletown, Greater Boston's progressive real estate brokerage. More at nexthometitletown.com and UrbanVillage Legal Massachusetts real estate Council serving savvy property owners lenders and investors more at UrbanVillagelegal.com. Today's conversation was not legal advice, but we hope you found it entertaining and informative. Discover more at realestatelawpodcast.com Thank you for listening