Embracing the Hustle - Real Estate Wealth and Abundance with Master Networker Kyle Curtin

Kyle Curtin: 0:00

If you're gonna be in this game for a long time,things like this are gonna happen once in a while, and you need to be okay with like just taking a step back, taking a deep breath, and then just like rationalizing, and figuring out how you're gonna keep moving forward. And that's like by far been the biggest lesson that this property has taught me.

Announcer: 0:20

You found The Real Estate Law Podcast, because real estate is more than just pretty pictures and law goes well beyond the paperwork and courtroom argument. If you're a real estate professional, or nothing to build real estate expertise, then welcome to the conversation and discover more at realestatelawpodcast.com.

Jason Muth: 0:44

Welcome to The Real Estate Law Podcast Jason Muth here with attorney broker Rory Gill NextHome Titletown Real Estate and UrbanVillage Legal in Boston. And Rory, we finally were able to get this guest on the podcast after many, many years of trying. And I gotta say, for people here in the Greater Boston area, if you've been to any kind of real estate networking event, you know this person. If you haven't, then you know, you'll get to know this person really well. But Rory,this guy is like one of the best networkers I've ever met.

Rory Gill: 1:17

Right? So if you're local to us, you probably already know him. But if you're not from here too, here's a story that's a multifaceted story that apply to just about anybody listening to the podcast. So everybody, even those outside of New England,you'll have a good some good takeaways here.

Jason Muth: 1:32

Right. So without further ado, please welcome Kyle Curtin to the podcast. Kyle,welcome.

Kyle Curtin: 1:39

Thank you so much,gentlemen. It's such a pleasure to be on here. You know, I've been watching your guys listening and watching the video guys podcast for quite a good amount of time at this point.And super stoked to be on and chatting with you guys today.

Jason Muth: 1:53

Let me see if I if I could do it. Right. Is it?What's going on, guys? Is that -that's that's your thing, right?

Kyle Curtin: 2:00

Yeah

Jason Muth: 2:01

Kyle is like all over my social media. I think maybe I interact with his content, or he just puts out enough of the interesting stuff.But I met Kyle a couple years ago on Bigger Pockets. And I don't know how we got talking.But you invited me onto your podcast probably over two years ago. This is 2021. And we talked for way too long. And I don't know who listened to that podcast. I don't even know if I listened to it back. So I was like, I don't want to listen to this thing. But I think after that one, Rory, we kind of rekindled this podcast, because we remember back in the day, we did eight episodes, and then we kind of paused and had a baby.And then two years later, we we once again resumed podcasting and I've been talking to Kyle,about getting him on this podcast. And one thing I should say, Kyle, this is our 100th episode right now that you're on so

Kyle Curtin: 2:49

What? Oh my goodness, damn.

Jason Muth: 2:53

You've already reached that milestone. But you know, we the way the calendar worked out, I thought it'd be fun to have you on for episode number 100 Holy crap, guys.

Kyle Curtin: 3:01

Oh my goodness. I'm like, ridiculously honored. I mean, once to be on here in the first place, and two to be episode 100 Holy crap, like,hey, oh, wow.

Jason Muth: 3:11

So Rory, why don't we let Kyle tell his story a little bit and then a long list of questions just about just where you came from. And you know, as an entity, like in this real estate world here in New England. So Kyle, can you please share with our audience like you know, who you are, what your background is, you know, where you got to where you are today.

Kyle Curtin: 3:31

I would love to, my friend. So my name is Kyle Curtin. I am a 22 year old real estate investor. I live and grew up in Tewksbury, Massachusetts.In December of 2021, I bought a three family that I house hack with FHA, you know, same as most folks that are kind of jumping into the game, couldn't recommend it enough to two people out there. I own occupied that thing for a year you know,made the bank happy with FHA.And then I recently moved back to my parents house in Tewksbury, and I'm turning the two bedroom unit that I used to owner occupied into a medium term rental, and kind of dabbling in that space a little bit. I've been furnishing it for a while and I think next time around them I'm going to apply a lot more you know who not how and try and delegate out something like that because I'm definitely not a professional at it. But yeah, you know, and essentially like, along with that I am an investor focused agent with Candor Realty out of Lowell. I see you guys, you know, alluded to I have hosted a real estate investing podcast called KCreatingwealth over the past couple of years. And I'm going through some ships with that right now that have been a lot of fun. I recently did kind of like a rebrand. I do kind of have my a little bit of my stuff on that I ordered recently.

Jason Muth: 4:50

I see that. We got some like, your hat. You got your sweatshirt, just like any good marketer. You're wearing your swag on the podcast.

Kyle Curtin: 4:57

I appreciate it man, you know, and it's been a ridiculous amount of fun doing that. And I'm sure you could ask and agree, it's it's such a fun activity, you know, to be able to network and, you know, give people like shout outs for their story and their, their companies and, you know, the kinds of things that they're looking for.Yeah, and it's just been a ton of fun, you know what I mean?And, like, I've talked to a decent amount of people, and it's, um, it's fun, you know.And recently, I actually have been kind of starting some new stuff. So I actually, you know,have been focusing a lot heavier on the podcast, and growing the community. So okay, I have a Facebook group around KCREatingwealth, definitely feel free to join guys. It's called KCREatingwealth Together.

Jason Muth: 5:44

We're in it.

Kyle Curtin: 5:45

Yes. Absolutely.And, yeah, I mean, it's, I'm,I'm basically trying to grow the podcast a lot more like have on guests that are from like, the New England area. And like,that's kind of been the new idea. But then recently, like,there was somebody that reached out to me from down in Florida,and then a syndicator from out in St. Louis, and you know,asked him to kind of be on and I'm like, Yeah, let's do or why not? So I'm still kind of figuring out what the new like,step is, I guess you could say it because I thought I knew what I wanted. But now I'm not really sure, I guess. But anyway, um,that's kind of what I'm up to right now. I have started learning a bit about like,raising private capital and trying to like, you know, tie communities and together and like, you know, build something that's much larger than myself.So that's been a lot of fun to learn about. So kind of how I got started, I'll keep it super,super condensed. So essentially,I fell into investing. So a couple of months before I turned18, I was sitting on my computer one day, I was bored out of my freakin mind. And some weird urge from the universe told me to look up what investing was.And that was 110%, the best Google search I will ever make in my entire life. So essentially, like, you know, it brought up like, Investopedia.And like, you know, I started learning about, like, equities and the markets and like, you know, that eventually grew into,like, you know, learning about time versus money and growing assets. And, you know, just this new idea that got introduced to me, of, hey, you know, there's actually a lot of other options out there than just working your9 to 5 for 40-50 years, you know, betting on that 401k retirement, like, hoping everything's still there. And,you know, hoping that things work out, you know, what I mean?And I'm actually like, digging more into that, you know, I was super into, like stocks and building like a dividend portfolio and, you know,eventually Rich Dad Poor Dad kind of, you know, found its way into my heart, as with, you know, definitely, you know, many of your guys listeners, if not all,

Jason Muth: 7:55

Yes, as it always does, that always seems to get woven into the conversation,right?

Kyle Curtin: 7:59

Oh, yes, that little purple book, man, I paid$8 for it. And the return is higher than anything, like I'll ever do for the rest of my life.Like that book is sacred to me,man. Yeah, I mean, I ended up reading that, and then kind of got the bug of like, investing in real estate did and, you know, I tried a couple other smaller, like, entrepreneurial,you know, kind of like fixing and flipping, like yard sale items like Gary Vaynerchuk. And kind of like his model, did that for a little bit. Was fun, but it didn't really stick as kind of like my thing. You know what I mean? Like, it made me a little bit of money, but it didn't really like resonate with me a ton, you know, so eventually, you know, after that, so I went to high school in Billerica, and essentially,like, I was doing HVAC, had my HVAC job, definitely wasn't enjoying it, you know, right after I graduated, and that in addition to learning about this new entrepreneurial title.

Jason Muth: 8:56

Kyle, let's talk a little bit about that, because I thought, aren't used to work your W-2 job, are you still working your HVAC job? Or no?

Kyle Curtin: 9:04

I am. Yeah. So what I ended up doing was essentially, like, I tried out Middlesex for a year got one year under my belt. And the funny thing was, was like,although I did like, you know,the core current like entrepreneurship classes, and like the idea behind them in high school, like I should have kind of learned then that school wasn't really like the thing for me. Like I did okay, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't the thing that like really, like,got me excited. So I did my year there, absolutely hated it. And the funny thing was, although I enjoyed the classes, I didn't like how like, structured everything was. So like, when it came to like the entrepreneurship classes right.There was like, oh, you know,you need to have your marketing plan done by like next Tuesday,and then you need to have your,you know, like other documents or like a paper written in like the next four days, the next week, two weeks, whatever. And I just, I didn't like it. You know what I mean? Like I, I realized then that like, I really, really liked this space. And there was definitely something here. But I need to be able to, like be flowy and like try things out and like experiments and stuff like that, and kind of see what like really resonates with me,you know what I mean? So after that I ended up kind of being faced with another decision. And I ended up jumping back into the trade. I got a decent job doing HVAC, I'm still at the same company that I worked at since that point. But definitely,definitely looking for for other things. And trying to use a real estate as a vehicle to get there.

Jason Muth: 10:38

Well, that's it's an easy vehicle to get to the next level, whenever whatever that level is. You know, Rory and I are, we both went through college, Rory went to graduate school because he's an attorney.I did not go to graduate school.But, you know, I went to an Ivy League school and all the stuff you've talked about, like, that stuff doesn't get taught, like to us. And, you know, I have not been in college for quite some time. So maybe the students today are learning something a little bit different. But Rory has been in college and grad school in years since I have graduated. And Rory never learned a lot of this stuff,right?

Rory Gill: 11:13

No, and it's such a shame, we could help our clients out so much more if we actually had this background, we could have run our practices better.And from what I've heard, the past few years have actually seen a resurgence and teaching professionals how to operate the business of being a professional. But when I graduated, it was actively discouraged to a certain degree,and it certainly wasn't taught in school. So it's such a shame.That's there. You're talking about education and W-2 jobs, I know, kind of in the circles where we run W-2 jobs are often disparaged or dismissed. But I actually, I have a different view on it, I want us to get your thoughts, what's the value of having a stable W-2 job if you're getting into the real estate investing space?

Kyle Curtin: 12:20

Sure. So I think there's a couple of different angles to be able to go on,right. And like, I mean, one from definitely the more more clear of like, you know, getting your paycheck every week, every other week, just for showing up and kind of doing your thing.You know, I mean, there's also the angle of being a lot more lendable. If you have that W-2job that you've had for like the past couple of years, or what have you, and being able to get like, you know, an FHA or like a5% down to be able to jump into your first like house hack or even buying a rental property outright, you know, without having to use like, you know,some sort of DSCR loan and like that type of thing. So in terms of like lendability, I think it's a must. Because I mean, I haven't been 1099 full time before. But I can imagine, you know, when the bank goes to look at your history of off commissions and that type of thing. I'm not really sure,like, how they would look at something like that, I guess,kind of from like a risk standpoint. Unless you're like,super, super consistent. That's an area that I don't know too too much about at the moment.But yeah, I mean, like, you're definitely looked at a lot more highly when you do have a W-2job and you're able to kind of dabble in the real estate space in different areas, when it comes to getting traditional bank financing. And the other thing too, guys, another point that just popped into my mind,is from a risk standpoint. So with my property in Leominster,I've had a couple times where I've gotten knocked around quite a bit, you know what I mean?Like, that's, that's a whole another rabbit hole there. You know, maybe we go down today or another time. But yeah, I mean,like some of these things, guys,like whatever kind of property you have, whether it's like, you know, a one bedroom condo, or like a 50 unit, like crazy syndication project, right?There's always those unexpected things that will come up. And like as much as like we all glamorized, like the cash flow and appreciation, you know, debt pay down, like the whole nine yards, I feel like the other part of that conversation that definitely isn't as sexy is with all that, beyond wonderful stuff that all of us, you know, know and love so much, with that is going to come a lot of challenges. Right? So like, why can you have a W-2 job, I mean,I feel like it's a lot more easy to be able to, like, you know,have reserves put aside. And then sometimes one, and some of those events come up that are four and five figures sometimes,it's a lot easier to, you know,just kind of make things happen and through overtime or like,you know, maybe dip into that emergency reserves, depending on what it is, you know, that that income is coming in, you know,on a couple of days or next week or whatever it is, you know, I mean, I've had I mean even like this winter alone, my basement flooded out once because a water heater burst. It was like 12years old and that's that's another conversation they had but yeah, I found a water heater that burst. And because I've been living in Tewksbury so much, you know, I'll visit Leominster once in a while to like, bring furniture over or check on the building, until I get the systems upright, to be able to like really just stay out of there as much as possible and rely on the team and the systems to kind of, you know,keep everything running smooth,you know, but, so I haven't really been as actively going over there. And this water heater, this happened probably like two months ago, it burst from the seam on the back of the water heater. And I didn't find it for two days. So there was like five inches of water, like in the entire basement. And it's a pretty reasonably sized basement. And I didn't really know what to do, you know,because like it knocked my heat out, because I had an oil fired boiler down there. And the oil gun itself was probably like,maybe three inches off the floor. And it was on a pad too.So like, that's how high you know, the water kind of was. So it fried the motor on that thing, like wipe the unit out.And I had no sleep in my unit.

Jason Muth: 16:26

Yeah, no heat in the unit. Was a cold out?

Kyle Curtin: 16:28

Absolutely. And like that was the thing. Like,it just it was a really, really like funny turn of events,because like, the reason that I ended up going over there that day, in particular, was because of kind of a handyman screwed me over because of something else that he was trying to fix. And like nobody was showing up and like that type of thing. So I kind of got that mentality of like, alright, like I'm under the knife for an insurance deadline. I'm like, There's something that I need to do like, like today, you know, so like, I kind of just took matters into my own hands. And then I'm like, You know what,like, I should probably check that there's oil in the tank,because you know, of how cold out it's been. And that's when I opened the door to the stairs to go down to the basement to find a glaze. Like the light reflect them back up, and I'm like that's not good, it's only and then like, that's what it was,you know, and not that experience in itself. I mean, I learned a ton. And like that's,that's another thing that I can go down, right. But that experience, it cost me I think like $1,000 bucks for a plumber.And thank Christ and everything else that I had a pretty decent relationship from a plumber that I got from a very good friend of ours, Jason Regan, shout out to you buddy, that was able to come out like the next day, and luckily there was isolations above the tank. So I was just able to valve that off and at least kind of isolate the the Lake Placid that was now in my basement.

Jason Muth: 17:53

Yeah, that sounds terrible. I mean, like, these are the kinds of things that you learn along the way. And, you know, how do you not get discouraged as a young new investor when things like that happen, and they're inevitable?

Kyle Curtin: 18:07

I'm super glad you brought this up, man. Because the one thing the biggest thing by far that this property has taught me. And I learned it two weeks after I bought the house,right? So essentially, what my plan was, was during due diligence, I saw that this property had two oil tanks that were like at least 40 years old,like these things were, like, a little bit concerning, you know,like, based on how long they've been there. And they looked kind of rough. You know, I also had a an oil fired boiler in the basement. And in one of the other units, there was an oil fired furnace. So essentially,while I was walking around during the inspection, I saw around this block iron pipe that went to what looks like a regulator, it was like the size of like a small pizza, and it was like this metal thing. And there was a gas shut off on it.And then like it was just kept off. So I was like, Huh, I'm like, I wonder if there was gas that was tapped down here.Because my master plan was right. I'm like, Ah, you know,I'm gonna call National Grid,I'm gonna see where the gas line is. And if this is a gas tap in the basement, and if I can tap off of it. And you know, if all goes well, you know, I'll have the run the gas line in the springtime, I'll have them put them meters outside, tap, you know, multiple gas lines in the basement. And then I'll use a massive heat loan, which is absolutely beautiful get out of jail free card and essentially convert everything from oil over to gas, you know, and then because it's a 0% interest loan,it's advertised often as a, it's like a seven year term. But I think it varies from credit unions a credit union, because I did it with Tewksbury, and they gave me a five year term. But my point was, was like, what something like that, like if you have to replace a furnace or something like that, instead of shelling out like 5-6-7whatever, you know, is prices look like nowadays, and you're able to essentially pay cash for that through the use of one of those loans. And then you get five years to pay it off at 0%interest. You know, so you get to maintain your liquidity along with getting the result that you're looking for. Like for me it came out to like I think it was a little bit above six grand. And my payment now for the next four years, is like 47bucks every two weeks, you know,and like, it's, it's crazy, I get freaking love it. But but basically my point being was, I had that that was kind of my master plan, right. And then two weeks after I bought the house,I found two oil tanks leaking in the basement, or both of the oil tanks leaking in the basement.And like it wasn't anything crazy, but it was dripping like once in a while, right? Like it had just rotted through the bottom. And like, I'm very blessed that I found it when I did. And I instantly like, you know, probably most of the people out there, I panicked, it absolutely took my breath away.And I was like, oh my god, like,what am I going to do. And you know, I freaked out for a little while. And then it's literally like, like life, like punched me in the face, right? And it was like, Dude, if you're gonna be in this game for a long time,things like this are going happen once in a while, and you need to be okay, with like, just taking a step back, taking a deep breath, and then just like rationalizing, and figuring out how you're gonna keep moving forward. And that's like, by far been the biggest lesson that this property has taught me, you know, and there have been a couple times that you know, with the five inches in the basement,that, like, almost, you get another rep in. Right. And like,the way that I think about it guys, is, you know, when things like that happen, it absolutely blows, you know what, it's horrible, like, all of us go through it, you know what I mean? Once in a while, whether it's like a freezing pipe, or like, you know, a crazy tenant,like, whatever is going on. And,like, it's just, it's normal,you know, what I mean? It's,it's part of the game. And, you know, as long as you're able to take, take those lessons, be able to take a step back, take a step back, rationalize and just figure out, you know, who you need to call to get this thing taken care of, or what you need to do, you know, to kind of start to like repair things,like you're gonna be okay. And I feel like, the biggest part of that is once you're able to get everything fixed, and like, take a step back, after everything's all over, be able to reflect back on that, and take the lesson and be like, dude, like,you just got a strike in the game, you know what I mean? And like, you know, so now you have a different reference point,because you've been through something that, you know, you might not have been ever, you might not have ever gone through before. And like, that's the thing you don't like. So once in a while, like, like, you're gonna get knocked around a bit,you know, it's, it's part of the game. But if you know that, like you're committed to, like,you're just not quitting, you know, like, just in black and white, like, like, That's it,like keeps throwing, throwing out me, like, whatever is out there, because you're gonna get through it. And you're gonna get a really, really crazy education when you do it. And like, you know, you're just gonna be able to step back faster and faster,and be like, oh, you know, I have a lake down here. But, you know, like, shut the tank off,like, you know, stop the water from flowing. And then run to Home Depot, and just pick up,you know, an extension cord or utility pump some hoses, and just plug it in and let it rip,you know, and like, like, what else is kind of, you know, to get worried about, you know?

Jason Muth: 23:42

Do you think that experiences like that are something that relying on your network has helped you get through, because, you know, I can think about the past couple years of you just constantly out there going to networking events, and you're meeting people of all different walks of life. And I want to talk about that a little bit as to how it's benefited you and how you even started doing that in the first place. But I'd imagine that going to those kinds of events allows you to build up a team of people that you can call, you know, you referenced Jason earlier, he probably knew a plumber for you to contact. But what got you to start going to these networking events, like many, many years ago?

Kyle Curtin: 24:26

Of course, yeah. So to your point, Jason, like, your network is absolutely freaking everything, guys, you do not want to play this game alone.And like, there are people that play this game alone, and you know, they're extremely successful. And like, if that's your cup of tea, or if it's, you know, get out there and go crush it, but I can tell you, it's definitely a lot more fun. And you have a lot more opportunities by, you know, just playing it with other people,you know, and to, to kind of jump into the first story of like, how I started to get going to networking events was, you know, like, as time was going on, and, you know, I was learning more about the space. I picked up kind of quick that,you know, this is a very people centric business, whether you're in the agency side, whether you're in the contracting side,you know, whether you're an investor like whatever your role is, like, you're going to need to be able to build up a team directly or indirectly, with a lot of other people to start to work towards the vision that you're trying to get to. So essentially, it's kind of funny,like telling the story of going to my first event, because I feel like there's, there's a couple things that I learned from that, that I'm always super, super happy to share with people just starting off, right.So it's a very interesting thing, you know, going out there and like meeting people and everything and like, because,like, what are we always taught as kids? Oh, you know, don't talk to strangers. So it's like,it's really interesting, you know, like, basically, like,going completely against a lot of the beliefs that were kind of ingrained as you engraved in you growing up. And literally, like just volunteering yourself to go out there being vulnerable, and going out to make friends in places that like you've never been in before. So I actually and I'm kind of curious if I'm,if you guys know, the the woman who's the first woman that I met in this space that kind of got me started, because this was in like, late 2018. I believe this.This was a little bit ago. Her name was Lisa Manfredi. And essentially, so the first meetup that I wanted to go to, it was on meetup.com And this woman,Lisa shout out to you Lisa absolutely love you. It's been a little bit but definitely have to connect soon again. But basically, this woman Lisa was putting on a small event with you know, just like less than 10people at Anna's coffee shop in Charlestown, Massachusetts. And basically what it was was, you know, people would get together and play Robert Kiyosaki's Cashflow boardgame, right. And like, everybody gets a different role and like really awesome stuff, right? And I want it to go over and over and over again.Right, but my anxiety was absolutely eating me alive. And I'd find every excuse in the book to not drive over there,you know, be like, Oh, no, it's my cat's half birthday today,you know, and I don't remember.So it made a little bit harder.It's out there, it's all rationalized that one. But eventually, I ended up, you know, kind of forcing myself to go, right. And it's something that I absolutely wanted to go with, like, like every part of me, right? But it was my anxiety of like, and the self limiting beliefs as well avoid, you know,this, you know, 18 year old kid that's like, starting to like houses, you know, like, what,what kind of value is he, you know, like, like, nobody's gonna want to talk to him and, and that type of thing. And I feel like that's a really common belief with people jumping into the space for the first time is like, all, you know, all these investors, like, everybody's,you know, so like, you know,selfish and like, self centered,and like, you know, just want to do their own thing. And nobody wants to work together. And like, everybody fights all the time. And I'll tell you, like, I couldn't be more wrong in my entire life. I'm very, very happy to say that, because I ended up forcing myself to go one night. And, you know, I met this woman Lisa, and you know,some other people around, one of which that I just connected with out of a couple months ago, that was really crazy, because she was kind of like, the second person from like, five years ago, you know, that I kind of got to know. But basically, so I ended up forcing myself to go,and I didn't really know what to expect, you know, like, there's a picture on my one of my Instagram Stories from a wicked long time ago, I had like business cards, and like, I thought this was gonna be like,oh, you know, like, go and try,like, you know, get clients for agency and that type of bank.And I'm glad I was wrong, as well. Because essentially, like,you know, we played the game, we had a ton of fun. And meeting this woman, Lisa, was my catalyst for changing my life for everything, literally, like a complete, like, cut and dry.Like, like mindset, like completely, like, rewiring my brain. Because she essentially,like, you know, I kept going to these events. And, you know, me,her and a couple other people started meeting on like Saturdays, and like, she would bring a whiteboard. And like,you know, we would talk about like, the fractional reserve and like, draw this stuff out, and like, how all the systems worked, and like, you know, time versus money and she was just like, someone that I've never ever met before, you know, and she was financially free. She was very into like, the Infinite Banking concepts and like, you know, starting businesses and,you know, investing in real estate in different capacity is,and she was just a very, like,free spirit. You know, what I mean? Like, like someone had,like, never ever met, or, and like we kept meeting and she showed me like, just the power of, you know, building assets and like, like right now, she's,um, I haven't talked to her in a little bit, but the last time I did you know, she was traveling with, like her boyfriend and their dog in an RV like across the US, and making like this huge trip. then like, all of a sudden seeing that something like that is possible. Like for anybody, you know what I mean?Like, you don't need to be like a billionaire and like have like all this really crazy stuff going on, like any of us can do this type of thing. You know,and like, what essentially,like, from pushing myself to start going to these events,like, ultimately changed my life, because all it takes is one conversation with one person to completely change your entire world. And like, since then, you know, I kept networking, and the big thing, the biggest factor in like growing my relationships,has always been sending direct messages to people on Instagram,or Facebook, Bigger Pockets,which that might have been how we met guys, I'm not 100%positive, I'd have to like really dig back. Yeah. But essentially, it very well could have been, absolutely, you know,and basically like, and in this message, right? Like, you essentially just want to be as genuine as possible. Because that's what you're looking to do, is just make friends, you know, and like, like, so, look up the people that are in the areas that you want to invest in, whether it's Boston, whether it's New Hampshire, like, like Nevada, like it, like whatever you want to do, you know, like,it's with the power of social media, it's very, very easy, you know, kind of in this day and age, to be able to find the people in the areas in particular niches that you want to meet, you know, and essentially, like, just shoot them a message and say, like,oh, you know, like, my name is Jason, my name is Rory, you know, like, this is the type of thing that, you know, I do,like, I'm located in Newburyport, I'm located in are going to these things like you're such an anomaly. Are you Boston. You know, like, I would love to hop on a call and hear your story. And the beautiful thing to, to your guys' point earlier, is the amount of people in this space that want to seeing new people coming to these networking events? I mean,genuinely help each other is like, way more than, than we can you been going you go to everyone that I think exists. So count. Right. So like the people that are open to jumping on a call with you. And literally just seeing how they can help you is insane. And like, the more that you do that, like you're gonna build up relationships in a lot of different capacities extremely fast. And then the big part of networking is, I mean,obviously, you know, like the relationship building and like things take time and stuff, but you never know bigger picture,who you're going to be doing a deal with, who you know, you're gonna need. Like, you're gonna see if they have like a plumber in that area, because your property is like, like doing really crazy stuff. And like,the power of networking is like one, I mean, it's a lot of fun.You know, and like most of my friends at this point, are like10 and 20 years older than me,if not more than that, in this space. And like I couldn't be more happy guys.you must know everybody in the world that goes these events.But do you honestly, do you see new people that come?Absolutely. And once in a while,I do find people that are a couple years younger than me.And literally like everything in my brain like freaks out man,like holy crap, like.

Jason Muth: 33:45

You're the old you're the old man now. Rory,I've got to ask you this question, though. Because, you know, you and I have been to a number of networking events. And you know, there's a lot of personality types at these types of events. And I think that half the people at those events are,you know, have heads big enough that they could walk in and feel comfortable in a room like that.And a small percentage of people are probably like Kyle early on,that had to muster up the courage to go, right. What do you think Rory?

Rory Gill: 34:53

Yeah, in I mean, to be kind of effective and make any connections in the spaces,you have to have a degree of vulnerability, if you're kind of going in there pounding your chest saying how great you are,maybe that'll earn you a bit of admiration, maybe it'll impress some people, but you're not really creating the connections,the same way that when you're there. You know, it's, it's easy when you're insecure to want to impress other people that are in the spaces. But if you go,they're interested in learning about other people, and, you know, making your situation a little bit vulnerable to everybody else, I think you can actually make good connections with there. And that's what people like, Kyle are doing well in this space there to make connections and not just to, you know, rattle off the resume.

Jason Muth: 35:36

Yeah. Rory, I have to think back to when we first started going to networking events. It was before the baby.That was 2019. It was before the pandemic, but we had I think we you were in the space as a professional. I think I was interested. And then I think that we just done like our first short term rental. I distinctly remember being on Bigger Pockets like in 2015. So I think back to the job that I was in at that time that we did not have any other investments besides you know, the primary home that I had. So I think we must have started going when we first you know, maybe have that first investment or so Does that sound about right, like 2016? That kind of like, you know, when we started going to those events in Somerville, and you know,throughout Boston.

Rory Gill: 36:19

Thereabouts, I may have been to some others, just in the real estate space a little bit earlier. 2014-2015.But we started by going in earnest around 2016.

Jason Muth: 36:28

Yeah. So I'm thinking back to this also, and you know, that many years, your senior, Kyle, I'm probably the age of your friends. Well, we're friends now. So I am, you know,the people that don't have any investments yet, or just are super interested in learning the space, I think it's important that they and if you're listening to this, and that's you, you're still welcome at real estate networking events. I will say that, I mean, I've been going to a few conferences lately, because now that we're going all in with the short term rentals, you know, Kyle, you know, that I've joined, you know, a Mastermind on this. And I just came back from a conference in Nashville, and going out to Colorado on Monday to meet up with some folks I met at a conference, I went to Miami. And what's helped me a little bit in this space is, is the credibility of having some properties. I don't know if I would have as much courage, if I was just starting fresh being like, well, I want to learn this space. Like, I feel like I can at least contribute something.Now that I am in this space, and probably deeper in the space and a lot of people that are actually at the conference with me. And there are some that are far beyond where we are right now. But how do you think things have changed now that you you have your property, you have a multifamily? That you're a landlord, you're talking about medium term rentals, you've had some disasters happen there? Do you think things are different now, with actually putting your money to work versus a couple of years ago, when it was like just, you know, starting starting it out, trying to find that first investment and trying to figure out what all these words mean, everything you've just said right there is not a conversation that most 22 year olds can have.

Kyle Curtin: 38:10

Yeah, no, that's a really, really good question,man. I definitely, I definitely agree. Yeah, and also, the things that I really enjoy talking about, at this point,are especially like, situations,like, are really going so well,with the property, like I feel like it, you know, kind of gives you some stripes, I guess, like kinda in the space. And, to your point, like, as always, guys,like everybody ever is, like,you know, always very much encouraged to, you know, go to any sort of networking event.And to your point is, well,Jason, I feel like everybody,us, like, even if you don't have your first property yet, I feel like everybody always has something together. You know,what I mean? Like, in terms of advice, and like, because one thing too, and I won't get too deep into this, but the, I feel like a large portion of this game is in your mind, you know,and like, having faith and like self limiting beliefs, and like,you know, just having faith in yourself that like, like, you're able to do this kind of stuff,you know what I mean? And like,it's, it's a really interesting,like, like, mindset, like, like,what your brain allows you to be capable of and start working towards, I'll kind of cap myself off there, because I can talk for hours about that.

Jason Muth: 39:24

Yeah, mindset is big in the space. I know that in the mastermind that I'm in, they have a second mastermind that I have not done yet, that is all about mindset called Limitless.And it is all about self limiting beliefs, and it's visualizing where you want to go, and you have everything you've kind of talked about right there. It's making it happen, even if you don't know how you're gonna get there right now. But you're like, I don't know how to get there. But I don't know how I'm gonna get to the next step. That's we can figure out first, right? So why don't we get to our final couple questions that we ask all of our guests. And then I want you to be able to tell people about your podcast, where people could download it, listen to you. And then obviously, if if you listen to this, and you show up at any meetup in the greater Boston area, you will meet Kyle because he will be there. So Kyle, we ask these questions of all of our guests that come on the podcast as a way just to wrap things up and get to know you a little bit better. The first question is, if you can get on stage for half hour and talk about any subject in the world with zero preparation low today,

Kyle Curtin: 40:31

I'd say definitely,definitely mindset. And like,like self limiting beliefs,habits, the power of habits is something that's ridiculously interesting to me. And like,just kind of like, I mean,really like the mindset like I feel it can go so so deep, and like I love reading books on like, self development and that type of thing. And like,literally, like what are the things that are holding each of us back from like, getting to that next point of where we want to be, you know, I'm like, I'd say what did it for me,definitely come to like, the power of network. And I mean,that's, that's definitely,definitely another one that I'm super passionate about. And yeah, I mean, like just just kind of putting yourself around around the people to, to keep moving forward and open mindedness probably would tie in there. And like, you know, just just being open to like, all of these, like million bajillion ideas, and like, different ways to do things and, you know,different people that are in like, different strategies. And I'd say that's a really, really big one. I mean, even to kind of tie in, as well as like vulnerability, you know, like,just to your point, Rory is like, allowing yourself to just be open, you know, what I mean?And like, like, tell people what's going on, like, the good and the bad. And it's, it's really interesting, like,especially with social media,you know, kind of the society's kind of norms with, with, like,the expectations, like for social media, you know, like,like, a lot of people typically only kind of post when things are going great. You know, and that's fantastic. Don't get me wrong, like, everybody's got their style, everybody's got their taste, and like,everything's fantastic, right.But I feel like it's, it can be extremely powerful to put out there the things that, you know,maybe are not going so well,because the amount of people that will come out of the woodwork and tell you like, oh man, like, you know, I had,like, you know, 10 inches of water in my basement, you know,like, this is kind of what I did, this is who I talked to,like, if you allow yourself to put yourself out into the world,like, crazy things are just gonna happen, you know, and people are gonna come out of the woodwork and like, you're gonna grow, you know, like, if you're like, just completely, like,100% authentic and like, just put your your crap out there.Like, everyone's gonna be okay,you know, it's, we're all playing a game together.

Jason Muth: 43:37

You know, if you're,if you're not doing that nobody knows, you know, so, you know,there's that fine line, but you know, if you need help with something, if you put it out there, a lot of times people that have the same situation,you know, would love to chime in, I think people you know,like to participate and help each other, especially,especially in the forum, it depends on, you know, Facebook groups tend to be, they can be terrible, or they can be great.It's, it's the quality of the people that are in the group.But, you know, I found that some of the Facebook groups that I'm in are extremely helpful,because it's a lot of people want to help each other. The second final question we have tell somebody happened early in your life or career that impacts the way that you're working today,

Kyle Curtin: 44:14

I would say, I would say meeting Lisa, to be honest with you literally, like,one relationship, like completely like, like, changed the trajectory of my entire life and like multiple different areas. If it wasn't for that one event, like, I don't know where I would be, you know, and like,that's, that's really what I pin everything back to is like, that woman was was the catalyst, you know, for, for starting to think a little bit differently. And like, you know, look into a different way to live your life and a different way to think like, you know, different ways to like, you know, build up habits and like, I feel like none of it would have ever happened if it wasn't for Lisa,you know? Yeah. That's definitely one of the biggest ones.

Jason Muth: 45:03

Yeah, we hear that a lot of people have on this podcast, people reference, one person that happened early in their life that you know, was influential, for whatever reason, good or bad. Final question, tell us something you're listening to, or watching or reading these days.

Kyle Curtin: 45:18

So one book I read very, very recently, that was another one that that kind of really opened up my mind was The Gap and The Gain, I kind of slipping on who the author is, I should know, because this this book hit me like a truck for a lot of different reasons. But like, essentially, like, I highly, highly recommend this book to absolutely anybody out there. I just read through this one very, very recently. And it basically like he was another like, pretty big shifts in the way that I looked at things and like, the way that I looked at,you know, the future and the past and, you know, like my vision and progress and like,it's a really interesting animal guys, and I'm kind of curious,like, what what your thoughts are on this is so essentially,like, without spoiling too much of that book, because I like I said, I highly recommend it.There's essentially two schools of thought, right? There's the gap, which is essentially, you know, looking at that's pretty much like the distance of where you are, and like how far you've come. Right and like, like keeping track of like those small little wins that you're having every single day, because every single one of us is winning in one form of another and it doesn't necessarily have to be about business. You know,like if you went to the gym today like you know, if you you know how to have fun like phone conversation today like, you know, if you you know, like hugged a loved one or something like that, like, it's, I feel like it's a lot of stuff that's often overlooked. But that kind of brings me to the gap, which is essentially, basically the distance between you and your total vision. And like, it's,it's a different kind of mindset. Because essentially,like, you could think about it like, oh, you know, like, Well,why don't I have my vision yet?Like, why am I not on the right path, like, you know, things aren't going well. And like,either of these mindsets, will send you down like a downward spiral, whether it just gets good, or it's not so good. You know, I'm like, it's just, it's a really interesting way to look at even like different different parts of your life, you know,like physical fitness.

Jason Muth: 47:26

So the gain is kind of where you've, what you've achieved, and the gap is where you're heading. Exact gap is between where you are, and where you want to get. Rory, do you know that book?

Rory Gill: 47:37

I have never heard of that book before.

Kyle Curtin: 47:40

I love that book guys.

Jason Muth: 47:41

I like the gain side of it. I know a lot of people are about vision and where you want to be, and you know, six months, five years, whatever it is good to build those kinds of plans. But I think it depends on where you are in your life too,you know, if you're still in your 20s or 30s, I think that having that vision where you're headed is probably really good.Not that I don't want the vision, but I I like to look actually I look at the gain and I look at, it's easy for me to remember different parts of my life. You know, it's easy for me to remember when I was your age,Kyle, like, it's easy for me to remember when I was 30 years old, like, and I date a lot of these things based on music, or where I was living. And I think about Wow, where I am today versus that point. And I still feel like that same person in the past, and you'll figure this out 20 years from now, you're going to still feel like you're that 22 year old. Because it's hard for us to shake those things, it's hard for me not to think about that kid in college,that kid right out of college.But you know, there have been a lot of gains since then. And sometimes we don't appreciate those gains as much if we don't really think about them. And I try not to think too much about the past. I try to keep going forward. But I don't know if this is part of the premise of the book, but it is good to take a pause and realize how far no one has come. That doesn't get me down that that makes me happy.

Kyle Curtin: 48:57

Exactly. I totally agree with you, Jason. And I feel like it's, it's really interesting, because like, I feel like you need the blend and like the balance of both of them. So like, one thing that's that I started doing, that's been instrumental for me, is,before I go to bed every night,I have a journal, and I write down the wins that I had that day. And then in the other column, I write the wins that I'm hopefully going to have tomorrow. And it like, as time goes on, like you're able to see these entries from like yesterday and a week ago and a month ago. And like you're able to flip through and be like,okay, like, I am making progress, you know, in different areas. Because I feel like it's super important, even like once in a while to reflect back and be like, Oh, okay, like, you know, things are going well. And to your point, Jason, like, you know, this is who I was then,like, look at how like my habits have changed and look at how like, like the next thing that I'm into now and like, yeah,it's I feel like it's super important to have, you know,both sides of the coin and in different contexts, you know.

Jason Muth: 50:01

Rory, I think I'm going to have to journal before I fall asleep on the couch. And I think that that's going to be if we get if we get Cecily to bed before 10:00.

Rory Gill: 50:11

That happens every once in a while. Yeah.

Jason Muth: 50:14

Rory, final observations for Kyle?

Rory Gill: 50:17

I'm just kind of impressed here. And I didn't really articulate it here how everything you have is kind of one grand endeavor that works well together. So even when you're talking about the disasters that happened in the basement in Leominster,everything that you went through there, there are a lot of really concrete and practical things that you can bring to your investor clients when you're working as an agent, you know,just by dealing with that you've built you've grown your network,by adding you know, by adding a reliable plumber in the area,you have gained familiarity with the Mass Save loan programs. You know how to do you know, you're closer to getting the gas hookup, you've learned all these different things that are of practical significance. Now, of course, you wish your basement didn't flood, but everything that you're working there, it all kind of works together. And I know, a lot of people in this space will have you know, they might work as an agent, they might be an investor, they might be a podcaster you are all three of those things. But everything you're doing helps inform the other areas and and, you know,not just not just kind of a loose sort of way, but in a real concrete practical way too.

Kyle Curtin: 51:27

Thank you so much Rory, it means a lot, man.Seriously, you know, it's like that's an interesting thing,too, is like, you can look at these areas as like completely separate endeavors, like your agency business, your investor business, like you know,whatever else is going on, and I feel like it, it does kind of make a lot of sense, at least for me to kind of join everything together, especially in the real estate space, you know, like, whatever role that you're playing, because I feel like there's so much overlay that like, exactly, you know what I mean? Like, you know,like the relationship from like,the investor side in Leominster of that one plumber, I absolutely love that guy. You know, I'm like, I don't mind like, you know, definitely paying him, you know, a bit more for for helping me out and like,he's a phenomenal guy. And now my, the agency side, like if there are clients that you know,are looking for, you know,places around there, or, you know, something happens. Now, I have a little bit of value to be able to give, to be able to give that referral to someone else and hopefully help them out. And I feel like that's a power that like all of us out. And like it's just the beauty of relationships, guys like it's such a, an amazing animal that will translate to a lot of different areas of your life,you know?

Jason Muth: 52:44

Yeah. Well, Kyle is the master of building relationships. And again, if you are in the greater Boston area,you either know him or you will met him if you go to a meetup.If you'd like to hear more from Kyle with his podcast, it's KCREatingwealth with a K right so KCREatingwealth but you've got to put a k right before it.

Kyle Curtin: 53:03

Yep, exactly.

Jason Muth: 53:05

Yeah. And that those your initials KC. I see look at that.

Kyle Curtin: 53:12

You know, something Jason, like, most people like won't really get it. And like, I never really like talked about it much. But that's exactly what it was is like my first like,brand type of thing was just like Kyle Curtin real estate.Now it's like, oh, like how can you like put together like, like words, like for a title like I don't know. And that's what it stuck to. You was like, Oh, Kyle Curtin real estate. KCRE. And then well, and like it just.

Jason Muth: 53:35

Kept going with it.

Kyle Curtin: 53:36

Absolutely.

Jason Muth: 53:38

The business we launched the short term rental business officially last year.It's called Straightforward short term rentals. And the straightforward part starts with STR like short term. We haven't we haven't even talked about that much on the podcast. We will and Rory has Business NextHome Titletown. We name that back when Boston sports teams used to win a lot of titles.That has not happened a lot lately, but maybe the Bruins will this year. Who knows?Hopefully, yeah. Yeah. Pretty decent game last night.Yeah, they're looking great.Yeah, they're almost going to be there for a while as of this recording there are four more games in the regular season. And if they went to more they win the or they get the I think they break the record for most wins in a single season by a team.But we'll see what happens here.This is this podcast is gonna come out many, many weeks after the season ends. Hopefully,we'll be playing in the playoffs. Rory, where can people find you if they want to reach out to you?

Rory Gill: 54:31

They could find me here at my brokerage. That's NextHome Titletown or online nexthometitletown.com. Or my law practice UrbanVillage Legal that's at UrbanVillagelegal.com.

Jason Muth: 54:42

All right. And you can find me Jason at nexthometitletown.com. If you'd like to be on the podcast or you have comments or questions,please reach out. We love five star reviews if you want to give us one. And we really appreciate your listening to this podcast.I hope you've enjoyed hearing Kyle's story on episode number100. Kyle, thank you for being our guest. We'll have to have you back so we can hear more about your endeavors as time goes on. I'm sure that three of us will hear them offline a little bit more not put officially on audio and video.But you're always welcome to come back and tell more stories because you are a ball of energy. You are an amazing networker, and you have more hustle than most people that I've ever met, so.

Kyle Curtin: 55:22

Thank you, it was a huge honor. And I'm very, very blessed to today you guys and be given the opportunity. Well, likewise.

Jason Muth: 55:33

Thank you Kyle.Thank you, Rory. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.

Announcer: 55:39

This has been The Real Estate Law Podcast. Because real estate is more than just pretty pictures. And law goes well beyond the paperwork and courtroom arguments. were powered by NextHome Titletown or Boston's progressive real estate brokerage. More at nexthometitletown.com and UrbanVillage Legal,Massachusetts real estate council serving savvy property owners, lenders and investors.More at UrbanVillage legal.com.Today's conversation was not legal advice, but we hope you found it entertaining and informative. Discover more at realestatelawpodcast.com. Thank you for listening