Accessing Your Home Equity Without Taking On More Debt with QuantmRE Founder Matthew Sullivan

Matthew Sullivan: 0:00

What we do is we enable investors to share in the equity appreciation of the home in exchange for providing the homeowner with liquidity. So that's how the process works. That's really what the what the exchange is. The investor provides liquidity to the homeowner in exchange for a share of the equity in the property which they get out of

Announcer: 0:23

You found The Real Estate Law Podcast, because real discount. estate is more than just pretty pictures. And law goes well beyond paperwork and courtroom argument. If you're a real estate professional, or looking to build real estate expertise, then welcome to the conversation and Discover more at realestatelawpodcast.com Welcome to The Real Estate Law Podcast we have another great episode for you today. My name is Jason Muth. I'm here with Attorney-Broker Rory Gill from NextHome Titletown Real Estate and UrbanVillage Legal in Boston, and Rory, we are talking about money. today. We're talking about financing. We're talking about tapping into equity. This is a great topic that lots of people who are listening, ask us about and are curious about and I get the question all the time, how are you able to fund all the deals you're doing? And Rory, I think we might have an answer here. We do. And I'm interested in this one because this is a I don't know if I want to call it a financial product or a financial option that I am not aware of. And having done hundreds of refinances and loan closings before, I'm kind of

Jason Muth: 0:44

Yeah, you're trying not to but I know you're going interested in the to because you have a lot of questions about this. So let's welcome Matthew Sullivan to the podcast. Matthew is the CEO and founder of QuantmRE Matthew. Welcome.

Matthew Sullivan: 1:58

Thank you for having me.

Jason Muth: 2:00

Matthew has the British accent that we love. To feel infinitely smarter

Matthew Sullivan: 2:06

Years of practice I can tell you.

Jason Muth: 2:08

Yeah. And Matthew comes to us from newly from North Carolina, by way of California you said.

Matthew Sullivan: 2:15

Exactly. Colonizing west to east kind of the

Jason Muth: 2:19

Kind of the opposite of what happened to the United States. Right?

Matthew Sullivan: 2:21

That's right. Just doing a bit of a tidy up on the way home. Yeah.

Jason Muth: 2:25

And I see if you're watching this video, I see this in original Banksy over your left shoulder. Is that what that is?

Matthew Sullivan: 2:30

It is obviously an original. Yes, I have several originals. Banksy, even though they weren't actually painted by Mr. Banksy himself.

Jason Muth: 2:37

Did you see the Banksy that got shredded at the auction house?

Matthew Sullivan: 2:40

I did. Yes. And then the funniest thing was the look on the auctioneers face because obviously I don't think he was expecting it either. So I think that was the priceless moment, forget about the artwork.

Jason Muth: 2:52

And if you want to dig deeper into the internet and waste more time, you'll actually find a behind the scenes video of the making of said Banksy. So we're not here to talk about public art or lovely art or, you know, the anything along that realm. We're talking about money and talking about equity and talking about tapping into the equity that we all have in our real estate. Matthew, talk a little bit about, you know, how you founded QuantmRE? And, you know, what are some of the things that you do to help real estate owners access the money that's in their properties?

Unknown: 3:23

Great? Well, if I can answer that in reverse order. So what we do at QuantmRE carry two key things. First of all, we help homeowners unlock the equity in their homes without taking on more debt. And the other part of the platform is a secondary market trading platform that enables investors to buy into the equity in single family homes, in fractions. So in other words, we take the equity, we create a asset around that, and we then allow investors to buy and soon they'll be able to trade is that they'll be able to buy and sell fractions of the equity in people's homes. So really, for homeowners, we solve a major problem, which is enabling them to tap into their equity without having to borrow money. And for many people, it's actually very difficult to borrow money at the moment for a number of reasons. You know, maybe their credit score is not what it needs to be maybe the debt to income ratio is too low, or too high or other. Maybe they just simply don't want to take on the additional burden of debt, yet they have more equity now than than I think we've ever had before. So what we do is we enable investors to share in the equity appreciation of the home in exchange for providing the homeowner with liquidity. So that's really I think we can sort of, you know, that's that's how the process works. That's really what the what the exchange is, the investor provides liquidity to the homeowner in exchange for a share of the equity in the property which they get out of discount.

Jason Muth: 5:04

Rory, maybe I'm naive. I know, I'm naive, but like, I've never heard of this before. And this could be one of those things that happens, like, where are you and I've talked a lot about funding and financing and how to scale and you know, I think it hit both of us over the head last year as to how a lot of real estate investors are scaling their businesses where a lot of people don't own 100% of anything they own, like 20 or 25% of a lot of things, right. That's what I've been saying. And that's how they spread out, you know, their risk, that's a they spread out their assets, and they grow their portfolios. But Rory, through all those conversations, we've never even thought about or talked about a product like this,

Rory Gill: 5:41

I think we have seen a host of kind of creative options in the investor owner space, because there are syndicated deals, there are partnerships there are, you know, fix and flip loans, there are just kind of a wider range of options now or so I'm going to kind of break the investor angle off a little bit, because where I haven't seen something like this is in the homeowner space, and just to make sure that my questions are better informed, and I'm in the right space, you know, how does this compare to, you know, a cash out refinance or home equity line of credit, the primary residential homeowner for whom is this a good fit? And for whom is this not probably the best option?

Unknown: 6:23

Great. You're absolutely right, because for some people, this is not the right product. For many people, a cash out refinance, or a home equity line of credit will be the best product. But for many people who cannot borrow money for a number of reasons or don't want to borrow money, this is an option that a few years ago wasn't available. So just to put things into perspective, these products that are called home equity investments have been around for over 10 years. It's really only in the last three or four years, as there have been that sort of growth in adoption and momentum so that they are now beginning to appear on the radar of institutions that are investing. So last year, about a billion dollars of home equity investments were securitized, so not only are they originated, but then now is a beginnings of a an institutional, secondary market. So it's a product that's at the beginning life as it were, but it's gone beyond that sort of initial stage, and is now beginning to get momentum. So I think over the near term, you'll begin to hear more and more about home equity investments as an option for homeowners. And the reason it's different to a cash out refinance, or HELOC is it's not a debt based product. So we're not lenders, we are investors. So we don't lend you money secured against your property, what we do is we have an agreement with you, which is essentially an option agreement that says in exchange, for us providing you with cash today, based on a certain percentage of the current value of your property, you agree that within the next 10 years, you will pay us a percentage of the property which represents, you know, whatever the value of that property is at that time. And that percentage that you're that you give us is going to be more than the percentage that we provide you by way of liquidity. And typically those numbers are in exchange for 10% of the current value of the property. You agree with us that when you settle the agreement, or if you sell the home, you'll pay us 19% of the value of the property at that time. So in other words, it's a straightforward exchange, where you sell us 19% of the future value in exchange with 10%

Rory Gill: 8:55

of the current value. Okay, let me just hash out like some of the details and some of the things that I can kind of see just happening because, you know, over 10 years, lots of things can happen, what are the property actually declines in value? You know, we've been blessed in the past 10 years where the market hasn't really done that boat what what happens in that situation does the homeowner kind of owe you a guaranteed amount or is it strictly based on the value at the at the time of sale,

Matthew Sullivan: 9:20

it's strictly based on the value of the property at the time of sale, or at the time that the contract is renewed. And that means that the property can go down in value without its significant without any impact on the homeowner. So that means that the investor really is on the hook as it were, if the property goes up or goes down so the investor can actually lose money potentially, if the value of the property falls significantly.

Rory Gill: 9:50

So you know, in this situation, or in this example, you're buying a 19% share of the home at a cost to the investor of 10% of the current value. How does that does it get reflected in title? Do you become? Does the deed the deed interest of 19% to yourself from the homeowner? Is there a alternate kind of security recorded? I just this is just something that is it's a new product to me?

Unknown: 10:15

The answer is yes. And that's great because it's great for the investor because the investor then gets an asset that is secured by a lien on title. So we'll sit in a junior position. And it's a deed of trust and the language of the deed of trust, very similar to the language that you'd get in a typical mortgage, for example, but it reflects the promissory note, as it were, is actually the home equity investment agreement. It really enables the investor to have an asset that's secured, we won't typically go more than second position. So we'll go in some cases, we'll be in first position. In most cases, we're in second position. And we normally ask the homeowner to pay off, if they've got other debts that have liens on the property, we'll help them pay those off, by releasing some of the equity in their property.

Rory Gill: 11:13

If you're in second position in a property, and a homeowner wants to refinance the first position mortgage or get a home equity line of credit in the future, are the situations where you'd allow your lien to be subordinated to the refinance.

Unknown: 11:28

Yes, in most cases, as long as the homeowner is not increasing their overall debt, then we'll be happy to subordinate to the new lender. So if they're refinancing their property with a new mortgage, then obviously, what we need to do is have a agreement with the new lender that will will sit in a subordinate position, we're happy to do that. As long as the overall debt has not increased.

Jason Muth: 11:53

A question I have, you know, I'm thinking about the numbers, the 10% 19%. So let's say you take out, we come to an agreement, let's we have a million dollar property, just to keep the numbers even, we would take out what $100,000 of equity with you in exchange of 19% of the full amount of the property?

Unknown: 12:11

And it's 19% of the value of the property Exactly. So effectively, we're buying $190,000 worth of value for $100,000. But there's a very important sort of but or caveat at this point. If you were to sell the property after six months, for example, then obviously, it would be a very large amount to repay. $990,000 for $100,000 some liquidity payments. So what we have as well is that is a cap, which is an annual return cap, which means the most that we can earn as investors in any year is 20%. And that 20% figure does depend on underwriting that's a good average. So that means if you were to sell the property after six months, then you would pay $110,000 in full settlement, which is actually $100,000 plus six months worth. So that means in the early years, you don't have to pay that full 19%. You also, to answer your question, Rory, if your house goes down in value, it's 19% of what the value of the house is. If it goes up, it's the same, but it's subject to that return cap.

Rory Gill: 13:25

Jason, thank you for asking that Matthew for the thank you for the answer. Because I know that this is an equity product. But when you start running the numbers as if it were alone, it paying 190 for $100,000. After six months, we've kind of create a usury situation. And that's what, I'm glad you're, you know, address that and did it. And kind of like the last of my like just questions to wrap my head around it. Do you give investments at the time of acquisition of a property? Or are these always kind of subsequent to the owner taking ownership?

Unknown: 13:55

Well, it can be immediately afterwards. So there's no seasoning period, you do actually have to be the owner of the property though. So what we can't do is advance you any capital based on the potential equity. But the moment that the ink is dry on the on the house purchase, then what we can do is we can provide you with funding there. And again, this sort of comes down to the uses of capital. And part of your question earlier was, you know, who is this actually useful for because for some people who can borrow money, it's going to be a lot less expensive for them in the long term to borrow money. But in the current environment, if you've got an existing mortgage and you're paying 3% or less, it's actually quite, you know, it's not particularly encouraging for you to refinance the whole thing at potentially twice that amount. That means that many people can't actually tap into their home equity because they feel like their hands are tied behind the back even though they can borrow money. But there are lots of use cases where people use this capital just very short term purposes, for putting money as a down payment on a property because it's not debt. So it doesn't increase your overall debt position if you're looking to acquire a new property. And that's another really important factor is it doesn't appear on your credit report. So you can use it to pay down other debt products. And what many people use it for is to clear expensive credit card and other debt where they're paying 30% a year. And then it does actually start making a lot of sense for them.

Jason Muth: 15:33

Alright, numbers again, so let's go back to that million dollar example. Right, 10%, you give me 100 grand, you get 19% of the property, let's say the property goes up to 2 million, you know, in five years, eight years, whatever it is. So now you have $380,000 equity stake in that property.

Matthew Sullivan: 16:28

And again, that's that that's all going to be subject to that annual return cap. So, again, if the value rockets up in if a house price, perhaps value rockets up then and you decide to sell or refinance, then we're always going to be saying, what is the lowest amount? Is it the percentage of the value of the house? Or is it that return cap?

Jason Muth: 16:50

Yeah, okay. Yeah, six years, 10 years or so the cap might not affect that, right? Because it's a longer period of time. And you know, it's certainly plausible that property, a million dollar property could go up to $2 million in 10 years, you know, by, by all means, I don't know what the return would have to be, you know, 9%, or whatever the number is. Okay. So, what's happening during those, let's use an example of a million dollars today. I'll pay you what is a Tuesday for a hamburger today or what did Wimpy used to say back on Popeye? I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today. That's what he's said. Million dollar property. Give me 100 grand today, 10 years now, it's worth 2 million, you get 19% of that what's happening in those 10 years? Like, am I repaying that million at all? Or are there?

Unknown: 17:29

No, you're not. And that is one of the key selling points of this type of agreement. Because it's an equity based agreement, there are no monthly payments, you're not accruing any interest or payments, there are no servicing fees, there are no additional fees. Everything is decided at the point that you decide to sell your home or refinance the agreement. And at that point, we either do a valuation, which is typically an appraisal, or you'll be selling your property. So we then say, okay, what are the numbers at that point, but in the meantime, you have full use of that money without any monthly payments to go with it.

Rory Gill: 18:08

You give us kind of with the the bridge loan example for a homeowner a kind of a good use case there. Were I think there might be kind of more creative applications to this, and maybe some really creative applications to our audience are in investment properties. So I see from your marketing material that this is not limited to primary residences, this can be used for investment properties. Have you seen or can you think of other creative ways that this product could be used for investors?

Unknown: 18:36

Yes, again, it's all about cash and liquidity. Because we've seen significant house price appreciation in the last two years, in particular, so many small portfolio holders have seen the value of their properties increased significantly by where the equity, but the only way that they can access that is by typically borrowing money. So many of these investors will not be able to borrow more money because they may be up to the maximum in terms of their personal ratios, maybe their rent income doesn't potentially cover any increase in borrowings, yet they still have additional assets there. And you know, we're in the marketplace, potentially where it's a buyers marketplace. So it does make sense potentially, to look at ways of unlocking equity, even though there's a cost to it. If we can use that money to buy more properties to expand our portfolio in a time when we think we can actually get some really good bargains because it's you know, let's say it's a buyers market now, then really the equation is what is the cost of my capital, my equity may actually start going down over time. So as this is an equity based investment, we're actually taking some of that risk as well. So by accessing some of your equity to improve it, or to increase your number of properties, that could be a good use case. Also using it to pay off some, you might have some private money in there some hard money loans that are becoming expensive. You may wish to reduce your overall cash flow, exposure to debt. And equity is a good way of giving you some breathing space to allow you to restructure some of your properties. And again, there is a cost to this capital, of course, but as an investor, you've got to say, well, what can I do with it? And can I make more money with that capital, particularly if I'm leveraging it four or five to one in a market that's likely to appreciate over time, and I'm getting a good deal. So those, these are options that weren't available. You know, before we had this this type of equity based funding,

Jason Muth: 20:51

Yeah, you're making a bet real estate is going to continue going up, that your investors are going to be able to because you said you could securitize this. So there's another side to your business, right? Where somebody can come in and be an investor in these properties that you have invested in. Is that right?

Unknown: 21:05

Absolutely. Right. So what we do is we pre fund these so we work with the homeowners, we have a pool of capital, we do the deal with the homeowner, which means they don't have to wait for us to find investors. And we then put that deal on our marketplace. Now, we only launched our marketplace at the end of last year. So it's, it's very new. And it's the only marketplace that we know, where you can invest in home equity investments, in other words, where you can invest in the equity in owner occupied homes. I mean, normally, you can invest in the equity in a home that you own. But you've got to deal with all the usual, you know, toilets, termites, tenants, and trash. But this is a way to invest in owner occupied homes where the homeowner pays the mortgage, and the taxes and the maintenance. And the most important point is the discount. The fact that you're buying $190,000 worth of equity for $100,000 insulates you from losses caused by the value of the property going down. And the caveat there is obviously, you know, market conditions may fluctuate, and this is not a crystal ball scenario. But the fact that you're you're buying the future value of the property at such a discount, if the value of the property goes down to say $700,000, then you still got 19% of $700,000, which is about $138,000, something like that. And that is still significantly more than your $100,000 investment, range investment we believe, because it allows you to get exposure to owner occupied residential real estate, with a significant discount that allows these types of investments to make positive returns, even if the underlying asset falls significantly in value.

Rory Gill: 23:02

Imagine one of the trade offs for the investor if you know if the investor is giving liquidity to the borrower, or I shouldn't say the borrower, but the homeowner, that means that the investor now is giving up a bit of liquidity in their investment, is there a way for the investor to trade or sell their stake in the equity or is this an investment where you have to wait the 10 years to realize the returns

Unknown: 23:26

With our platform, you will be able to sell your shares in the equity that you purchase. So we have the licenses in place to do this through a partnership with a broker dealer that has something called an ATS license, which is a trading license. What we're doing now is we're really just working through the other regulatory sort of hurdles, which are fairly sort of, you know, there's a fairly well trodden path. So we're not really breaking any new ground. So we expect within the next few months to be able to offer tradeability on our platform. So right now, you can buy into these home equity investments. And then when the homeowner sells them, they'll pay out. In a few months, you'll be able to trade with which means you'll be able to buy and sell and buy and sell. And there'll be a market that really allows all these really interesting dynamics to develop. Final point on that, though, is that these types of investments or who equity investments tend to pay off much sooner than that 10 year window, because people refinance people move homes, most people tend to use these as a short as a short term capital solution. There are obviously a percentage that will run for the full 10 years, but what we're seeing is that most of these investments do tend to run for, you know, three or four years. So that's the typical average duration is going to be around that sort of that sort of time,

Jason Muth: 24:56

Are the investors who can buy and sell and trade in, in these in these shares. Are they accredited investors?

Unknown: 25:04

They are today. But when we roll out the tradability side, non accredited investors will be able to buy in, and trade. So the the actual minimums are going to be very low, you know, sub $1,000. And it's actually quite interesting, because this is a market that is absolutely dominated by institutions, which is probably why you haven't heard of it from an investment perspective. And you've got family offices, hedge funds, download funds, pension funds, those are the guys that will really are the players in this space. And what our platform does is really open it up in the same way that crowdfunding for real estate released or opened up real estate investment for smaller investors, we're doing exactly the same thing for this very interesting asset class that has all of those wonderful sort of discount characteristics. Currently, you cannot buy home equity investments, unless you are, you know, a large institution. So our platform really is going to open that up. But most importantly, it's going to enable you to trade them, which is, which is another really exciting development, you know, we think

Jason Muth: 26:18

It's a fascinating idea on both sides, you know, as property owners, and as investors looking to diversify their portfolios looking to go into a REIT, this could be another option, you know.

Matthew Sullivan: 26:30

Absolutely, yes.

Jason Muth: 26:31

If you don't want to go to the REIT option, and you want to partner up with smaller company such as this, and maybe the returns will be better or there'll be quicker. From the property owner side, though, you know, it's it is fascinating that you're trading a share of the future appreciation, you know, for cash today, and you're basically not paying any interest in between, you know, because you've already paid that factored into that 19% of the of the sale price. Has that 19% fluctuated over time, or is that?

Unknown: 27:02

No, that's fixed, is actually fixed. So the only thing that moves is the value of the property. So it's 19% of something. That something is the value of the property, that's the thing that moves up and down. But to your point, this type of equity investment has been available in the commercial world, since, you know, the beginning of time. The, you know, investors take equity positions in commercial properties. And there are all sorts of different ways that those equity positions are structured, that that type of financing just hasn't been available to homeowners until relatively recently.

Jason Muth: 27:38

Yeah, you know, I think the average person who you know, sees real estate investor friends scaling their portfolios is saying, How are you doing this? We all listen to a lot of podcasts. I'm sure that you're a fan of Biggerpockets and all the real estate perhaps, fine. You know, you hear about people that have 7,500 doors, which sounds daunting, but okay, maybe if that's what you want to do. But it all comes down to capital. I mean, it all comes down to cashflow. Like, do you have money to pay your mortgage right now and all your bills and your contractors that you could scale your business? And if you're on the outside looking in, you're probably saying how are these people doing all this? Like how, you know, people understand having a home, they probably understand a home equity line of credit. But I'd be but actually a lot of people don't, you know, because we scaled some of our portfolio using HELOCs in the past. And, you know, I get the question frequently from people that want to buy that first investment properties. And it's really like, Hey, I heard about this thing called a home equity line of credit. Have you ever heard of that? Like, can you take that to invest in a property? And I'm like, Yes, that's how you do it. Right. That's how you start this now. Now, you've you've been welcomed into the community of people that have been told that in advance. This is , this is a new thing for me. I'm sure it's not new for everyone listening to the podcast, but it's probably new for most of the people listening to the podcast, yes, you can tap into equity on properties without, you know, going through the underwriting process with a local credit union or bank, which is just daunting. I mean, the paperwork, that I mean, we're doing that right now on a commercial property that we have. And, you know, one final question I have, before we get to our last questions, who is your audience for that on the on the not on the investor side, but on the side of people who are saying, Hey, this is probably something for me, are you looking for like your personal like your primary archetype? Is it small real estate investors? Is it people scaling their portfolios? You know, who are you talking to you right now, like for your first kind of customer?

Unknown: 29:35

Most homeowners, if we talk about homeowners, most homeowners come to us because they need money. And a percentage of those come to us because they're investors. But it's a very small percentage. Most of the people come to us because they need liquidity. And they're comfortable talking about sharing some of their equity, because they can't believe how much their house has gone up in value over the last couple of years. And I think the market is getting to the point now where many people believe that it probably is not going to continue to appreciate, in fact, it might actually start to sort of, you know, may even go down to people and now wanting to far more willing, I think to consider equity based options. But you know, most people are people that need money. They need money for short term bridging for you need to solve problems for divorce healthcare problems, paying off credit cards, or just cash flow. A small percentage of those people, as I said, are investors and that's because only a small percentage really understand how this type of capital can be put to work. But I think that that will change over time. As more people as you say, as more people get become aware of HELOCs and and that was a relatively new financial product in some some time ago, so, and there are still many people that don't understand what that is. So there's still lots, I think, lots of potential for people to understand more about equity based financing, and how that can be a really important additional sort of tool in their toolbox.

Rory Gill: 31:12

And I just want to ask, I guess one thing just about the market today, with kind of the rapid rise of interest rates, we've seen that a lot of homeowners and investors are feel like they're locked in a property they have now because the first position lien is such such a low rate, that it really prevents them from, you know, an investor case doing traditional cash out refinance. But even homeowners are staying put in they're unlikely to move. In this environment, have you seen greater interest in this product from people that was just looking to get that second position lien at a more reasonable rate?

Unknown: 31:48

Yes. And I think from our perspective, it is this the current set of circumstances, really is the is the ideal circumstances for us. In other words, you've got interest rates have increased. So now it's challenging, you know, people don't want to refinance. Because why would I want to double my payments before I even get any more any money out? And you're right, if I want to move, where am I going to move to? And how much is it going to cost me? So interest rates really is has sort of hogtied a lot of people, both from the investment side and just just people that want to move. But still, their equity is there, the value of their home is there. But it's sitting there really withering on the vine because they're not able to do anything. So it's a combination of people being more willing to discuss doing something with their equity, together with an increase in the education. In other words, more people are hearing about this, together with the fact that there's more of a need, you know, we've got high inflation as well as high interest rates. It's more difficult now potentially, in a post pandemic world to make money than it was a couple of years ago. And so all of those challenges come together. But the real benefit to the homeowner is there is now a way to access some of their wealth without having to go through that additional debt burden.

Jason Muth: 33:18

It's a fascinating concept we've never to get out on this podcast. So you know, I appreciate all your insight on on how how people can go into home equity investments, is it that I get that right home equity investments?

Unknown: 33:28

Absolutely, yes. I mean, that's I think, really, that's they've gone through different names. But I think that's very much what, what I think everyone's settled on that as the as the name.

Jason Muth: 33:39

Why don't we get to the final couple of questions. And then Matthew could tell everyone where they can learn more about you, because the product is right for them, they can reach out to you. And you know, I'd encourage everyone listening to this. If you just have never heard of this before you want to rewind, listen to it, again, read through the show notes. I mean, I really think that this is something that might require a couple of lessons to fully digest. Okay, we ask these questions of all of our guests that come on the podcast as a way of wrapping things up and learning more about you. So Matthew, first of these questions, if you get on stage for a half an hour with zero preparation and talk about any subject in the world, what would that be?

Unknown: 34:14

I think it would be flight. So I'm a private helicopter pilot, even though flI haven't flown for some time, I am still obsessed by flying. Every time a helicopter flies over, I still sort of listen out everything about it just you know, the science to the the act of getting in the helicopter and checking it and it still causes cold winds to brush across my temples just thinking about it say that. I mean, that's something that is truly under my skin. So I would love to, you know, bore the pants off people for, you know, 30 minutes at least, and lock the doors so they couldn't escape.

Jason Muth: 34:49

Rory, have you ever been in a helicopter?

Rory Gill: 34:51

I have never been in a helicopter.

Jason Muth: 34:52

I have never been in a helicopter either. So, one day, Matthew we'll have you take us for a ride somewhere. You know, once you make sure that your license is brushed up and that your skills are, you know, are back?

Matthew Sullivan: 35:03

Well, I guess we'll find out, won't we?

Jason Muth: 35:06

Easy way to figure that out. Second question, tell us something that happened early in your life or career that impacts the way that you're working today?

Unknown: 35:16

Well, I think really, when I was in the late 90s, I spent a number of years working with Richard Branson, so Sir Richard Branson, so we ended up designing and building the hot air balloon long story but the hot air balloon that he used in his global circumnavigation attempts. And I think finally he was beaten to it. by Bertrand Piccard, who's name is forever sort of, you know, welded into Richard's brain I'm sure, but so it was a fascinating time because we ended up working very closely with Richard and his team in Holland Park in London on a number of different projects, everything from Virgin cosmetics, to Virgin clothing, B2 music, Virgin Mobile. So, you know, just being able to spend time being surrounded by his that sort of energy and that ability to do things was very formative, I think.

Jason Muth: 36:12

Is it true that all Englishmen know Richard Branson and or the the Queen before she passed away? Because Americans think that it is true?

Unknown: 36:20

Absolutely. It is the two most important cornerstones of our country's education.

Jason Muth: 36:26

I figured that you guys knew them all, personally.

Matthew Sullivan: 36:28

We even forgave him for the sweaters that he used to wear.

Jason Muth: 36:32

His cruise line looks fantastic. Have you been on one of those virgin cruises yet?

Unknown: 36:37

No, I haven't actually. And I, unfortunately, have not yet managed to go up in one of his space vehicles either. Although I do regularly email him asked me for a complimentary seat, but must be just, you know,

Jason Muth: 36:53

Maybe it goes into the spam folder?

Unknown: 36:55

It must be. That can that can be the only really the only reason why he hasn't responded.

Jason Muth: 37:01

I did fly in one of his jets once and it was a lovely hue of purple. That changed. Yes. Yes, it was yes. Finally, what are you listening to, or watching or reading these days

Unknown: 37:13

Reading. I'm reading The Hobbit, by JRR Tolkein, but the twist is I'm reading it every night, I have two boys one, seven, and one's just coming up for six. And it is the cure for insomnia, even though it is the most fantastic book. But it really is just this sort of magical journey that they go on. And within five minutes, they are just fast asleep. So it serves two purposes. One, it introduces them to some, you know, fantastic, good old fashioned English literature, it's just so nice to be able to read to them as well. Because, you know, in this sort of modern world of iPads and things like that, to be able to, you know, open a book and see pictures and stuff like that. It's actually, you know, is still quite refreshing.

Jason Muth: 38:01

Yeah, I remember reading The Hobbit back in elementary school or junior high whenever it was. And back in that day, it was far before it became this, you know, movie series, you know, making billions of dollars for tons of people and you know, spurring a culture of people who are really into Lord of the Rings and travel to New Zealand and all these, you know, different absolutely fantastic things. But that's, that's awesome. Would you continue reading when they after they fallen asleep?

Unknown: 38:25

I do actually Yeah. Yeah, I just I've just got to get to the end of the chapter. It's like, well, what's gonna happen to Gandalf here? You know, come on, you can do it. But no, the good thing is that they haven't actually seen the movies yet. It's not because I've engineered it that way. They just haven't watched those movies. I think they're more interested in in the fundamentals or something like that. So they haven't they they're still sort of forming their own images about what Mr. Gandalf looks like, and what the hill and Bilbo Baggins, you know, so it'd be interesting for them to see the movie after they've read the book, I think, which is normally the you know, a nice way round.

Jason Muth: 39:00

Yeah, well, like you, Rory and I, we read the Pout Pout Fish to our daughter. And we we continue reading that just to see, you know, the direction where that's headed. Just in case it takes a twist or a turn that we weren't aware of, you know, directly.

Unknown: 39:14

The trouble is when you read stuff like that, and you fall asleep before they do, that's, that's that's why you gotta be very careful of your choice of literature for evening reading.

Jason Muth: 39:23

Or the trouble is if they don't fall asleep, and you have to read it five times. Yes, read it again. Yeah. Matthew, where can people find out more about you?

Unknown: 39:33

Everything's on our website. It's quantmre.com. So we've got a calculator on there. If you're a homeowner, you can find out how much equity we can help you unlock. And there's also the investor portal. So you can go in, you can register, there's no charge. Take a look at we've got a half dozen properties, and we're growing those. And there's also lots of other information, ebooks, videos, podcasts, all on the website. And of course, you know, our contact details if you want to phone us or email us.

Jason Muth: 40:06

Excellent. We'll put that in the show notes. We love freebies, free calculators, free, downloadable things, and absolutely free. That's great. Rory, where can people hear about you?

Rory Gill: 40:15

There are two good places to find me. You can find me through my real estate brokerage. That's Nexthome Titletown nexthometitletown.com. Or my law practice that's UrbanVillage Legal, urbanvillagelegal.com.

Jason Muth: 40:27

And if you want to reach out to me if you want to be on the podcast or you have questions about anything that came up in this episode, or things that you'd like to ask Matthew but you're too timid or shy to ask him directly you can ask me and I'll ask that of you. I met Jason at nexthometitletown.com. So Matthew, CEO founder of QuantmRE, Matthew, Matthew Sullivan, we really appreciate your being on the podcast.

Unknown: 40:49

Thank you very much. It's been it's been great fun. I really appreciate you inviting me on. Thank you.

Jason Muth: 40:54

All right.

Announcer: 40:55

This has been The Real Estate Law Podcast. Because real estate is more than just pretty pictures. And law goes well beyond the paperwork and courtroom arguments. were powered by NextHome Titletown Real Estate or Boston's progressive real estate brokerage. More at nexthometitletown.com. And UrbanVillage Legal, Massachusetts real estate counsel serving savvy property owners, lenders and investors. More at UrbanVillagelegal.com. Today's conversation was not legal advice, but we hope you found it entertaining and informative. Discover more at the real estate lawpodcast.com Thank you for listening