Major-Market Commercial Real Estate Insights with Real Estate Attorney Belinda Schwartz

Belinda Schwartz: 0:00

Being a real estate owner or investor comes with a certain amount of risk. And it's a risk reward conversation. Right? Even for myself. I am not my clients, but I do invest in real estate but in a much smaller way. And I think that it's important to make sure that you appreciate that oftentimes, you can make really good money investing in real estate. But every once in a while there's a down market. Or you might have a change in your life where you all of a sudden need that liquidity. And you know, real estate is not a liquid asset the way the stock market is.

Announcer: 0:40

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Jason Muth: 1:04

Welcome to another episode of The Real Estate Law Podcast. Thanks again for tuning in. We really appreciate it. We have an excellent episode as we always do here. We are going to one of the heavy hitters in one of the biggest real estate markets in the United States. That is New York City, Rory, we've been waiting many, many months to speak with Belinda and I'm eager to have you introduce her to our audience. Because this has been this episode has been, I'd say at least six months in the making since we first heard from Belinda's team.

Rory Gill: 1:33

No, and I'm thrilled to be having this conversation. And the listeners will hear today that we're going to be talking about kind of real estate transactions and family offices at a scale that we really haven't talked about in the past. We will be talking about doing the most complex transactions in one of the most regulated competitive markets in the country. But I don't want that to be intimidating to our listeners. In fact, I want our listeners to hear this and think about all the other opportunities that are not maybe apparent to them already. We talk a lot about small scale residential events investing. So I'm hoping that some people will draw some inspiration. So with that, I'd really like to welcome attorney Belinda Schwartz to the podcast. She is a partner at Merrick Feinstein LLP, where she is the chair of the real estate department. So we have a heavy hitter here, and an expert in the commercial space in New York City. Thank you so much, Belinda for joining us.

Belinda Schwartz: 2:28

My pleasure.

Jason Muth: 2:29

Tell us a little bit about your story and how you got started. You've been working in the space for a few decades now. 30 plus years, according to your bio. And you've probably seen it all in the many, many decades of working in New York City and throughout the area.

Belinda Schwartz: 2:44

New York City commercial real estate in general is crazy. New York City is crazy. But you know, it's funny, you say I've probably seen it all. But the truth is, I still haven't. And that's why I love what I do. Because it never ceases to amaze me how, how much crazier it can get, and interesting and educational and intellectually stimulating and psychologically demanding as well.

Rory Gill: 3:09

In the intro, I say said complex, but I think a lot of that just means that there's we have a lot of opportunity for new situations to arise, new ideas to present themselves that, you know, some of us in residential real estate don't necessarily get to see. Can you talk to us a little bit about, you know, some of the projects that you've worked on and some of kind of the new fact patterns that came your way?

Belinda Schwartz: 3:30

Sure. So a lot of what I do is grounds up development deals. And a lot of those are focused on residential development in New York City or throughout the country. And a little bit complex, obviously, because the deals are rather large. And so they require a lot of different participants, right, a lot of the the sponsors and their developer partners, their equity players, their debt players, often there are city and state issues. You know, affordable housing is a complicated conversation in this country. You know, people come into the market often start small, and some of them just really love it, find a lot of opportunity to grow their businesses. You know, not everyone starts out with a bundle of real estate that they've inherited. Some people literally do it from scratch. And I think that's pretty amazing.

Jason Muth: 4:29

That's kind of the perception that people have of New York as - I'm an insider and an outsider because I'm from New York originally. Spent plenty time in New York City. I'm from the suburbs, just north in Rockland County, you know, love going there and seeing all these massive buildings in Manhattan and then you go to the outer boroughs and it's much different. I mean, Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island and the Bronx are very, very different than what you see in Manhattan. Everyone thinks of Manhattan as New York City. Your point there and people starting out on the smaller side. So you are saying that there is a way for somebody today listening to this that has no experience with real estate investing in commercial real estate to break into the market. That is it's not an overwhelming impossibility is it?

Belinda Schwartz: 5:11

No. In other words, there's a lot of opportunity for people to enter the market because you don't need to be, you know, you're not curing cancer, you don't need to have a degree necessarily. I think, though, that people do need to understand that being a real estate owner or investor comes with a certain amount of risk. And it's a risk reward conversation, right? Even for myself, I am not my clients, but I do invest in real estate, but in a much smaller way. And I think that it's important to make sure that you appreciate that, oftentimes, you can make really good money investing in real estate. But every once in a while there's a down market. Or you might have a change in your life, where you all of a sudden need that liquidity. And you know, real estate is not a liquid asset, the way the stock market is not that the stock market is doing so great all the time. But you can't exit so quickly. I think that's the biggest thing I would say about

Rory Gill: 6:18

We're talking a little bit about the New York real estate. market. But I know in a lot of real estate circles when people are seeking to enter the first time, they look away from some of the more expensive markets thinking that there are greater opportunities in smaller cities, more rural states. But what is the reason for somebody to invest in New York or one of the largest cities that may have a higher apparent barrier to entry? What are the different risks and rewards that you get in those communities?

Belinda Schwartz: 6:44

That's a good question. Because I think there are definitely real estate, smarter people in real estate than I who do believe that at the end of the day, places like New York City, over the long term will always, almost always be okay. I'm not talking about let's not get into climate change right now, or things like that, yet. So you know, you're making a calculation that investing in New York City real estate, while more expensive, a harder barrier to entry, will in the long run, though, sustain itself. Whereas certain other locations where it might be easier to become an investor, you know, might have more risk in that sense. But of course, COVID has taught us a lot about real estate, and where there might be other opportunities, and where there might be risks in investing in a city like New York City or other urban areas.

Rory Gill: 7:46

You know, I know you work with a good number of family offices in this space, you know, but on this topic is things change, I know a lot of family offices kind of have a longer time horizon, we've seen a lot of volatility in the market related to COVID, related to drastic changes in interest rates, and just different commuting patterns of a lot of things happening over a very short period of time. What are some of the changes that people with a long term mind should be making now in this market?

Belinda Schwartz: 8:13

So it depends what we mean by long term, right? So family offices often are characterized as having a hundred year horizon. That is very long term, you know, not everyone can really afford to do that. So it kind of depends what we mean here, by long term. But I would say that, again, you just have to be prepared not to have to exit at a particular moment in time. And other than that, there can be a lot of opportunity for everyone, you know, to really ride a healthy market, real estate markets, through the ups and downs. Right? The biggest thing that real estate people always are concerned about is will they be unable to refinance their debt? Or will they need to, and will that cause them to have to sell into a down market, and that's something that you know, people can avoid. But with COVID, what we've learned certainly is that, you know, you can have a lovely place in a small and a location where people enjoy living, and, you know, remote can work remotely. And you can make some nice money that way. Now, there are tax implications and all that stuff. But there are really good, nice residential opportunities for smaller players.

Rory Gill: 9:38

You know, one thing just probably too easy of a question of a question, but I know a number of real estate brokers in rural states who are celebrating the death of the city that everybody was leaving the largest cities and their markets were that of the future. You know, what do you have to say about that? Have we seen long term march away from the cities, or is that just wishful thinking on the part of the rural real estate brokers?

Belinda Schwartz: 10:02

Great question. I wish I knew the real answer to that. But I would say this, I don't think we should give up on urban cities. I really don't. I think that, in the end, younger people enjoy living in more densely populated areas. I think people don't like having a longer commuting time. I think that a lot of people enjoy culture and entertainment and things like that, and those build. community. And so I wouldn't give up on urban living yet.

Jason Muth: 11:17

Yeah, I'm going to echo that also. You know, I just spent 20 years living in the city of Boston, like in Boston proper. And, you know, you have to talk about demographics here, as well. And you know, how many people are in these cohorts? Everyone talks about the millennials, but the millennials are in their 40s. Now, right, you know, so now it's Generation Z is coming up next, and whatever the next generation is called. And you're right, it's all about community and having lived the life that I've lived, you can look back and see the different stages, whereas when you're 20, you don't know the stages that are ahead. Right? So, you know, I know what it's like to be post college, I know what it's like to be, you know, number of first relationships, second relationship what have you. Start to settle down by that first place, you know, I've seen the lifecycle as somebody that lived in the city. And I don't see that changing, I just don't, especially with as many people as we have, who are coming into their late 20s, 30s, late 30s. You know, you said it right there. I mean, culture, family, community, meeting people, the cities are the way to go, you know. The country, that suburban places, the smaller cities, there's nothing wrong with these places at all. In fact, a lot of the benefits of those are smaller versions of what the cities can offer. But you know, New York City has just been this, the melting pot, obviously, you know, we can say that with for many, many generations of immigrants coming in there. People live there, because it's close to where they work. But community and the culture elements of what a place like New York can offer are going to be the continued draws to draw people in. And you could rinse and repeat and say that about Philadelphia, and Boston and Miami and Dallas, Houston, Seattle, whatever, all these big, big cities. COVID was a test. Right? But look what's happening now.

Belinda Schwartz: 12:57

Yeah, so but I'm with you on that.

Rory Gill: 13:00

That aside, what development looks like in the city, though, certainly has changed. We've seen the death of certain categories of movie theaters, of the suburban shopping mall, of the office to some degree. So what's ahead for commercial development that, you know, how's that going to look different in the next decade than it did a decade ago?

Belinda Schwartz: 13:19

Well, first of all, there, as I said earlier, there really is not enough residential being built. I mean, there just isn't. And rents are very high in New York City. And it's just not it's not healthy for us, I don't think. And in the long term, the question is, whether we, you know, think for a minute about the financial center downtown, right? When I worked started out as a young lawyer, there was nothing residential down there. And I mean, nothing, very little restaurant, very little shopping. Nothing to do down there. And with the right incentives, community can be built. Battery Park City is amazing. The Highline is beautiful. So I think we just need to really be creative and find ways to repurpose some of the street retail, and some of the office certainly, but unfortunately, that requires some political heft. And, you know, we're rather it's hard to find community around politics these days.

Rory Gill: 14:34

Is that our politics the impediment to building more residential and converting other uses into residential?

Belinda Schwartz: 14:40

Well, I wouldn't blame politics entirely, right? It is hard to repurpose an office building in the middle of midtown into residential, just purely from a construction perspective. But some of the requirements that we have, you know, regulatory requirements are not really of this moment. They date back quite a few years. So I think it's a combination of politics and also maybe a lack of imagination on all of our parts.

Jason Muth: 15:16

You know, with your level of experience, having worked in New York real estate for so long, and in your role, can you talk a little bit about the importance of building relationships with people at other firms within city hall? You probably have a really deep network is what I'm guessing. And my hunch is that was the things that happen over time. Maybe you didn't notice it as you were building that network. But now looking back at it, you know, can you comment on just the value of having that deep Rolodex and how it could benefit not just clients, but just anyone that's getting started in this space?

Belinda Schwartz: 15:54

That's a really good point, I didn't realize how important it was when I first started out. And now of course, it's everything at the end of the day, it means if I don't know the right persons call, I can call somebody who might know the right person, somebody can make an introduction for me, you can speak to somebody about a concern that you have. And honestly, it's everything to me. And it's really made my career what it is today. And actually, it's one of the things I worry about for younger people that they don't have, they don't see that. And they don't necessarily value that. Professionally, I think it's pretty critical.

Rory Gill: 16:38

I mean, I think that goes hand in hand with kind of the commercial development you to kind of this hybrid, working, working from home, prevents the young people who are entering a space from really making those connections, because doing it remotely doing it is not the same as building these connections. I mean, I think that kind of interestingly goes hand in hand where the cities and urban development I think, is meant to facilitate connections. That's the purpose of cities. That's the purpose of the commercial construction. Is there any hope that this trend is going to reverse itself? And I asked you that not just as an expert in commercial development, but you work in your with your own firm with your own connections. Do you see any of those networks being rebuilt in the post COVID era?

Belinda Schwartz: 17:21

I do think they're being rebuilt. But it takes a lot of it's hard. It takes effort. And it takes my you know, it really takes you doubling down your energy on these connections, and take not taking things for granted, not taking people for granted. Not taking your networking contexts for granted. You have to work. Work is work, you have to work it. But you know, I've been told I'm a bit old fashioned that younger people have said to me, you know, I'll say to them, come into the office, and you can have lunch or dinner with your colleagues, or hang out and have a drink. And they're like, if I want to do that, I'll do that with my friends. And maybe we, I should say, because you know, I'm older, maybe I overvalued that aspect of my life. And maybe they're undervaluing that. And maybe there'll be a rebalancing, where sort of you find that good balance between your work your personal life. But I certainly think I would tell people that it's critical, critical to come to the office or to meet clients, or network.

Jason Muth: 18:38

We do have an interesting dynamic of people in the workforce now, because we've had an people that are probably in their mid 20s, haven't really gone to the office that much, right? They graduated into a pandemic, they might have been working from their bedroom, maybe they're going back to the office now a little bit more than they were. And we have people that are older. I mean, I'm in my late 40s. And I remember I love the benefit of working remotely. I mean, like just how convenient is this? Like, I built my relationships already, like I have I know a lot of people, I know where to go find those people now. And I have credibility that I could speak to both experience and other people who I know to be able to continue with those relationships. And then there's the in between where you know, you are, you're still in that developing your Rolodex. I keep saying Rolodex, but that's dated too right, isn't it? Like, we're thinking about business cards and Rolodex? You know, it's like having the save icon right at the top of the document where, you know, young people are like, what is that little like, black thing? It's like, that's a floppy disk. Right? That means safe, I don't know where things are going to end up. You know, I do see everything rebounding, I think that, you know, the pendulum is shifting a little bit more back toward going back to the office with the amount of layoffs that we've seen lately in all industries. And I think that, you know, employers are getting a little bit more empowered. And maybe workers are seeing that and say, Okay, I should probably go back, maybe start building these relationships. And that will lead to the cities rebounding even more than they have, right because there was obviously a dearth of people walking around cities two years ago. And that is not the case now at least in Boston, it's certainly not the case. Traffic's back. People are back, foot traffic back. Same thing as New York City. Let me shift gears a little bit. So I want to talk about your mentorship work because you do a lot of work with women in your space. And I'd love it if you could talk a little bit more about what you're seeing in some of the younger women that are graduating college, graduating Graduate School, graduating law school, entering your space, entering legal commercial real estate, how are you able to empower them to get up onto the right foot in a space that is admittedly very male dominated for many, many decades.

Belinda Schwartz: 20:36

And it still is. Yes, I think that, most Yeah, that's, you know, excellent advice that we importantly, you lead by example. And you lead with honesty. And I think pretending that it's easy is a mistake. And I think you need to make sure that you tell your stories, and you tell people that it is incredibly hard to balance everything, and to break into an industry that's dominated by one group. But you know, you don't give up. And you keep pushing and pushing, and you do it with a smile and a laugh. And, you know, you just keep doing it. And I try really hard to be honest with people to be sympathetic, to bring them to pitches to introduce them to clients. And just to make sure obviously haven't had to deal with being a woman in a male that they feel supported. I had very good training as a lawyer. I was taught how to be an excellent lawyer, how to be creative, and how to think like a business person. But I did not have a mentor who taught me how to achieve, which in the legal profession is really to bring in business. That's where you own your space, when you have your own, you have business, you've dominated space like you have. And you know, those words, I generated, you're a generator of money. I've also told people that women that there isn't one way to do this. And even though I had did not have those options, right, if you had a child, you were considered to be on the mommy track. And I did not want to do be on the mommy track. But that now you can have a little bit of a more fluid path, and that you can get on and off the train on and off the track, whichever analogy works. And it doesn't have to be forever. would encourage you to rewind them, if you are a female listening to this. If you're male, too, because I think it's important for men to understand, you know, what it's like to be a woman in this space. I don't want to use the word plight, I want to use the word experience, right? Because it shouldn't be it shouldn't have a negative connotation. It should have a, this has a different connotation, you know, and that is, we need trailblazers like this, you know, people who can carry the torch through a difficult profession, and pass it on to people and explain to them what it's like that succeeded for you, that might succeed for them as well.

Rory Gill: 23:15

In other you know, shifting gears just a little bit, because I want to make sure I ask about this too. One of the complexities that you that you've encountered in your career is working with international investors, people from different countries, different backgrounds, kind of all coming together to the same project? And that may add just as much complexity as zoning regulations, and, you know, affordable housing limitations. So, you know, can you tell us about it, what any tips you've had, or experiences you've had, you know, working across cultural differences in time zones, if it's a matter of practicality to get these projects done.

Belinda Schwartz: 23:49

Of course, and you know, New York City is a melting pot, but it's also a place where a lot of capital comes into the country, and then is deployed into real estate deals across the country. And people from other countries have different styles. For sure. Working in New York City, real estate is probably the best training for that. But yes, you have to be, you have to understand and you have to listen to people, right? That I think was what it really comes down to at the end of the day, real estate Iivesting people are, you know, good people are pretty similar. It's just a question of hearing them, and not making certain assumptions about them. But also being patient and explaining to them why what they do in their country might not be how things are done here. But I think being a good listener is part of being a really good lawyer.

Rory Gill: 24:46

How do we do business differently in the United States that might surprise investors and other people from other parts of the world?

Belinda Schwartz: 24:54

Well, in certain parts of the world, it's a lot more opaque. Right? People are not comfortable disclosing certain who they are, how much money they're putting in who their investors are. So I think that, as complicated as things might be here, it's still more transparent than in a lot of other countries, is what I would say is the most complicated thing for me to have dealt with.

Jason Muth: 25:19

Before we start to head toward our final couple questions. I did want to ask one last question about working with family owned real estate businesses. You know, it's something that you have done for quite some time. What are you seeing with a smaller company that's owned by as a small family like what are some of their concerns today that you've

Belinda Schwartz: 25:36

Well, there are different concerns, some of really helped them through? them are very focused on succession. And what's going to happen to the business? And what's the best thing for the next generation. Sometimes there are different, I don't know if the right word is values. But you know, different generations feel differently about certain types of investments. And that could be because some prefer doing what's commonly called as, you know, ESG, investing or finding real estate adjacent to ESG. And some are like, Why real estate when we can invest in the tech sector sector, maybe not today, because the tech sector is having a moment. But um, so there's, they're a family dynamics, but that's true. Every family has family dynamics, it's just a little more complicated when real estate is involved. And I think accessing good partners to work with when the deals are a little bigger, and need more than one family, I think is also a tough thing. As you want to grow your business, you know, how do you find that really good partner? A lawyer can a good lawyer can really be a good thing. But it can't help you if at the end of the day, you have a really bad partner.

Jason Muth: 26:54

Yeah. Or if you just don't want to be the business anymore. You know, I've seen it happen in my role in media sales for many years, where we're kind of dealing with the third generation, sometimes the secondary generation, but usually the third generation that is just on the out. They're ready to sell, right? You know, the first generation built it up, the second generation saw them build it up, and they are now working in the business, then the third generation is saying, hey, I want to do something entirely different. Can we cash in this asset, you know, sell it on to somebody else?

Belinda Schwartz: 27:24

There are tax implications to doing that. And I think it's working with families, and helping them understand the choices and the implications of each choice.

Jason Muth: 27:36

Right. Any final questions for Belinda, Rory, before we get to our last three questions that we ask of everybody?

Rory Gill: 27:42

No, I just want to... well, actually, yes, because I have kind of one listener set of listeners in mind. And those are people who, again, are working on the smaller scale investments, they're starting to just build that family wealth, whether they just started with a two family in the outer boroughs, what are some of the opportunities or things that they're missing if they're thinking small? Are there trends that they can jump on to, or are there just, you know, other possibilities that they should be aware of?

Belinda Schwartz: 28:12

You know, I think that focusing on the residential space is probably the best space to focus on, whether it's single family homes, or a small investment in a larger rental project. Because at the end of the day, we all need a place to live. So that's, I think, where I would focus my efforts, I think, you know, speculating on doing something in retail or commercial, you know, an office building or something like that will be hard. I think, industrial is, a great space. But, you know, is a little more complicated if you're a single and you know, a smaller investor. So I probably focus on residential.

Rory Gill: 28:59

Great, thank you.

Jason Muth: 29:01

Yes, I agree. Very much so, and I have less experience. So but I'll take your words and keep them in the back of my head, as I you know, look for the next investment. So thank you so much for all that we will get to a final couple of questions that we ask of all of our guests here on the podcast. And then we'd love to hear where people can reach out to you for more information, or if they want to say hi. So our first of these three questions is if you get on stage for a half an hour and talk about any subject in the world with zero preparation, what would it be,

Belinda Schwartz: 29:29

I would talk about how important it is to recognize that we each have an obligation to each other, to make this world a better place. And that is not inconsistent with making money. And I'm not talking about Effective Altruism or anything like that. I'm just saying, when you do your job, consider who you work with and how you treat them. Because life is long.

Jason Muth: 29:59

That's a topic that comes up a lot in the household. We're talking a lot about our three and a half year old and how she needs to be cognizant of the world around her and not just her and I think that that lesson leads into business and leads into, you're right, making money, right? We don't see enough of that these days.

Rory Gill: 30:15

It's in is we do our own investments is easy to talk about tax advantages and the bottom line and making sure we're maximizing revenue. But we also want to set a good example for her too. She's watching us and I want to make sure that she understands that we do this, you know, we want to be successful, but we also want to be good members of the communities that we operate and we want to make sure that we are treating everybody that comes to work with us, you know whether they are a cleaner of a property or a professional along the way, you want to make sure that we're treating everybody well. So thank you for that. And we'll keep that in mind as we go forward too.

Jason Muth: 30:52

Second question, tell us something happened early in your life or career that impacts the way that you're working today?

Belinda Schwartz: 30:57

Well I guess I'll pick something early in my career, when I was told that, I'll never make it, I'll never be a success in real estate law, have no chance. And I should find something to do something else to do with my time. Maybe picking a different field of law, maybe family law, maybe you're not for profit, all good things, but it's not what I wanted to do. And I took that as a challenge. And, you know, that message is conveyed, no longer typically conveyed as explicitly, but it is often conveyed in little messages that people sort of send you like, oh, you know, you're going to be going home to your children now, right? I mean, obviously, they don't do that to me anymore. And my children are adults. But it's staying true to who you are not letting other people tell you what you are capable of.

Jason Muth: 31:55

Do you think things are improving on that level? Now versus 10-20 years ago? You know, are people more cognizant of work life balance? And what little comments like that might do to the confidence of somebody as they try to improve their career, but also have a family?

Belinda Schwartz: 32:11

I think it's gotten better. But I don't think it's great. And by the way, women are not the only people who are, you know experiencing these, whatever you want to call them? I don't know, if it's appropriate to call them micro-aggressions, I don't know. I'm not I'm not. I'm not intellectually capable of defining it. But I think until you yourself experience, something like that, you really don't understand. And it just means like, you know, be, be more careful, be more conscious, I think we all can be more conscious of how we behave. But, yeah.

Jason Muth: 32:53

You know, I worked in business for a long time. And

Belinda Schwartz: 32:53

It's hard. But as we did say before it is work, I don't think I had the empathy toward other parents until I became a parent later on in life, you know, toward the very, very end of my career. And not like I was a bad manager, I thought I was really good manager, actually. Ask a lot of people, and they would probably agree that I was a good manager, either of them or other people. But, you know, until you're a parent, you don't get with the parents are going through, you just don't. And now I look back, and I wonder what I would have done differently, you know, to people that had young children along the way. I think I treated people right, but you know, again, like, I understand, like, when you see other parents that have children about the age that you're you kind of look in their eyes, and you're like, I get it. Yeah, I know what you're going through right now. And, you know, we were just at a situation last week where we drove back during rush hour, when I drove back during rush hour with a screaming child in the back of my car for a half an hour and irrationally screaming, after we went to go see a character at a store. And it was during rush hour. And I it was the commute that I would have had to have been doing if I was still at the same company that I just left many months ago. And I'm like, I can't believe that I had even a remote consideration of doing this commute. Like, I would not survive that commute for a week, especially with the child not with a child to back me but just with a child. I wanted to be around more for her, so, you know, that kind of empathy. I don't think I got it. But now I do. And it must be and it is a business. And you know, businesses do need to make amplified, you know, for people that are working in the city having to commute out to the suburbs having to, you know, delicately balance that work-life balance, which is tough. money to pay everyone's salaries, etc. And so there's a there's, it's, it's complicated, but we just have to do better. That's all.

Jason Muth: 34:52

And our final question, Belinda, tell us something that you're listening to watching or reading these days.

Belinda Schwartz: 34:56

So I'm actually watching Peaky Blinders. I don't know if it's Amazon or Netflix or whichever. And I like watching anything where there's a family at the center of a story and how complicated it can get.

Jason Muth: 35:14

Have you seen Succession?

Belinda Schwartz: 35:15

Oh my god. Yes. I'm looking forward to the next season.

Jason Muth: 35:21

Well, great, well, if you could tell everyone where they can reach out to you if they want to learn more about you and the work that you're doing or anything involved with Herrick Feinstein, LLP. Your work as the chair of the real estate department there. What's the best way to reach out?

Belinda Schwartz: 35:34

Sure, just send me an email bschwartz@herrick.com

Jason Muth: 35:38

All right. We'll put that in the show notes along with links to your website. So people can easily find you if they have additional questions. And Rory, how can people reach out to you?

Rory Gill: 35:48

I can be found through my law practice. UrbanVillage Legal that's urbanvillagelegal.com or through my real estate brokerage Nexthome Titletown, that's nexthometitletown.com.

Jason Muth: 36:00

Alright, Belinda, do you watch football? Are you Giants or Jets?

Belinda Schwartz: 36:05

You know what one of my clients owns a team and it's not the Giants or the Jets. So I'm very careful.

Jason Muth: 36:11

You're the other team, got it? All right. Well, I was gonna try to figure it out that part of it, you know, because people outside of New York don't understand that it's one or the other. Like I grew up in the Giants household and right, not like the Jets and the Jets people don't, even though we're all in the New York area. Belinda, thank you so much for joining us today for The Real Estate Law Podcast. It's been a pleasure getting to know you a little bit more and learn more about all the work that you've done. And you know, the great mentorship and your insights into commercial real estate, the New York market, you know, leadership formulating a really long and prosperous career in such a crazy real estate market such as, such as New York. So you know, we appreciate your time today. And thanks so much for being on the podcast.

Belinda Schwartz: 36:50

Thank you both so much.

Jason Muth: 36:51

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Announcer: 36:54

This has been The Real Estate Law Podcast. Because real estate is more than just pretty pictures. And law goes well beyond the paperwork and courtroom arguments. were powered by NextHome Titletown Real Estate or Boston's progressive real estate brokerage. More at nexthometitletown.com and urbanvillagelegal, Massachusetts real estate council serving savvy property owners, lenders and investors. More at urbanvillagelegal.com. Today's conversation was not legal advice, but we hope you found it entertaining and informative. Discover more at the realestatelawpodcast.com Thank you for listening.