49 - Promoting Safety and Preventing Violence with Osso Safe Founder Sabrina Osso

Sabrina Osso: 0:00

What we're doing is we're kind of spearheading this, a new face of residency,if you will, making safety a required standard condition or residency. So when you sign those leases when you sign title to your property, whether you have a mortgage or not, well,we're saying that safety should be front and center.

Announcer: 0:25

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Jason Muth: 0:44

Welcome to another episode of The Real Estate Law Podcast. Thank you so much for listening. My name is Jason Muth and we're here with Attorney real estate broker Rory Gill.Hello, Rory.

Rory Gill: 0:59

Hey, Jason. And I'm happy as always to speak with a guest today. And we're going to be taking a deep dive into safety and security in the home.And it's a pretty broad topic.But that's something I'm really looking forward to Sabrina Osso has, who is the founder and CEO Osso Safe, has built certification programs and other resources for those in the real estate space. So we'll take a deeper look at that. But great to see you, Jason. Great to see you, Sabrina.

Sabrina Osso: 1:25

Thank you,

Jason Muth: 1:26

Hi Sabrina, how are you?

Sabrina Osso: 1:28

Very well, thank you so much for having us on your podcast. This is so great,especially whenever it's about real estate. I love talking about it. And it really bridges what we're doing. So thank you for the opportunity.

Jason Muth: 1:43

Oh, sure, you know,you you actually bring a really interesting angle that we haven't spoken of too much on this podcast. A long time ago,we did an episode about safety for real estate agents at open houses. And you know, when we were researching your background and whatnot, when you reached out to us, you know, we have a look at your website and saw your TED Talk and some more information about you, we said,you know, what's interesting about what Sabrina's offering is, is this is the other side of the real estate. You know, real estate, a lot of people that are on this podcast are investors or they're agents or their people in the business that are buying selling real estate for themselves, for clients. You're working mostly, or I don't want to speak for you, but it looks like a lot of the work that you're doing is the other side.It's the people that are living in the homes. It's the folks that you know, want to remain safe in these spaces that everyone is renting out or purchasing. So why don't you tell us a little bit about Osso Safe, you know how you started the business what you guys do,and you know what your mission is?

Sabrina Osso: 2:40

Thank you again for the opportunity. We see real estate in this fashion. No one should live with violence,abuse, chaos, dysfunction, no one, especially children.Whether you live in a townhouse,a co-op, a condo, a single family home, a multi family dwelling, a two family home, a villa, a mansion a mobile home,no one should live with abuse in any capacity, not verbal, not physical, not sexual abuse. So what we're doing is we're kind of spearheading this, a new face of residency, if you will,making safety a required standard condition or residency.So when you sign those leases,when you sign title to your property, whether you have a mortgage or not. Well, we're saying that safety should be front and center, right at the top of the list. Because everything else is secondary.And I speak about this in my TEDx talk. So the way Osso Safe got started, I am a former victim of violence. My father beat my mother on a regular basis. I've had enough years of therapy. I've been in and out of therapy for quite some time, I'm comfortable enough to say it to perfect strangers to people that I've known in a long time. But it took a while to be comfortable to say so. So I know firsthand how horrible it is to live in that type of environment. You're basically living in a warzone. You're living with a terrorist. An episode of violence can occur at any moment. My father beat my mother on a regular basis, and my mother would beat me, so, and this was ongoing. I have a degree in computer science. I did what I was supposed to do. I went to university, but I found that the computer corporate world was very unsatisfying.What I am is a dancer. And my therapist saw that in me and I was heavy duty clubbing in the city. I loved clubbing I was once I moved out I felt so free so liberated. So I was going back to who I was supposed to be, if you will, because when you live with violence, you have to put your life on hold in a way you can't think about what it is that you want to do,because you're constantly in survival mode. So anyway, she my therapist said, Sabrina, you're a dancer, you have to go study and go be a dancer. So I did. I studied, I was taking 12 classes a week in New York City, voice lessons, some acting, but dancing. And I was auditioning,I was getting gigs, but I started writing my one woman show. And that one woman show was called "Home Sweet Home?"And I was teaching dance at the time. And I performed it with my students, actually, my dance students looking back. That was pretty awesome. You know, to do that to be on stage with your students doing your show, your one woman show in the show, it's called "Home Sweet Home?" And I play different women being abused, she goes to a good place. That's where the dancing comes in. But then she's pulled back into the terror of violence. The show ends really strong really empowering. And I did a lot of research for the show. And Jason, I couldn't believe the statistics that I was finding Jason and Rory, I, I couldn't believe how common this was. So I said to myself, I have to make this into a business into a bonafide business with bonafide products and services that could really help people,whether you're going through violence or not. And I thought back, what did I need growing up? What would have benefited me? So that's what I developed with Osso Safe, basically,combining education and technology to promote safety and prevent violence in the workplace, schools, but in particular, in your place of residence. So I hope I answered the question. I know I go off on a tangent sometimes, but hopefully, I answered everything.

Jason Muth: 7:02

Well, you explain how you got to where you are now also, which I think is important, because it's not just the what it's the why, why are we doing what we're doing. So we you clearly explained that and we appreciate hearing your story. Rory, can you maybe talk a little bit about how you see,Osso Safe fitting into your travels and the work that you're doing as a real estate broker with some of the agents that you have.

Rory Gill: 7:27

So unfortunately,when I have to train or teach safety, it feels as though I'm just kind of looking at series of good ideas that maybe if taken together, can make for a safer workplace, most mostly, in our case, a safer workplace for our agents, but even a safer experience for our clients. But it's not satisfying that it's just a series of sort of disconnected ideas that maybe each chip away and make things a little bit safer. So what intrigues me about your work is kind of taking a more comprehensive approach and giving, you know, putting safety at the forefront instead of just chipping away at the edges. So just give us a little bit of a practical insight into you know,what your product or your services look like for for people at the end?

Sabrina Osso: 8:12

Great question.Our core product, are they Osso Safe certifications. And right now, we're focusing on the landlord tenant portion of the industry of the real estate industry, because that's the path of least resistance. But I want to say that we want this to propagate over all residency,whether you rent, whether you own, whether you have a mortgage or not. So we're saying okay,Mr. and Mrs. Landlord, hire us get your properties Osso Safe certified, what does that mean?They purchased the Osso Safe Home Sweet Home package. And that consists of a policy, a seminar and app, and therapists assigned to the property. So just to give a brief summation,the policy basically states, I as a landlord, I promised to provide you a safe space for you to live, you in turn as my tenant, you promise to not act in any way shape, or form abusively, otherwise, you the abuser only gets immediately evicted from the premises. And we go into full knowledge knowing that that would be the consequences. So the rest of the family unit gets to stay provided that they could still pay the rent or the mortgage. So it's the abuser that gets evicted? That's the policy. The seminar is everybody gets educated on facts, statistics,warning signs, definitions of abuse, the difference between abuse and discipline just to name a few items, because I feel like we should know these things. But a lot of people I think, whether they realize it or not, and abusers know when they're being abusive, so I'm not making excuses for them. But this education is basically a blanket education for everybody new and existing tenants. So you're going to know that - oh,pulling hair constitutes abuse.If I smack the crap out of my kid that constitutes abuse. If I call my kid or my boyfriend or my girlfriend, you're a whore,you're a slut, you're nothing,you're worthless. That's all verbal abuse. So there's no question anymore. Like, oh, I didn't know, no, now you know,you got educated, then there is an app, and now it's being updated. But this app will detect violence, like movements and captures them in real time issuing alerts to the landlord.So let's say a landlord has 10units. Well, they're going to get an alert. Oh, wow, I just saw you beat the crap out of her in my unit 2. And you just beat the crap out of him and my unit10. These are grounds for eviction, you knew that that was going to happen, you signed the policy, there's a waiver in the policy. So this keeps everybody else intact in your building. So that's the technology portion of the package. Then the fourth and final component are therapists assigned to the property. So these therapists, it's no more leaving it up to the wind,tossing it up to chance. You're required as part of your residency to check in with your therapist once a month. Is everything okay? Do you feel like anything is looming? Well,actually, Mr. And Mrs.Therapist, my kid came home with bad grades, or my kid is getting bullied, or I'm having trouble in my relationship. You know, I feel like maybe it's in the danger zone of abuse, I don't know. So this is all part of being preventative versus waiting for an episode of violence to occur. Because when the police come, Rory, it's actually almost too late to do something. We needed to take steps steps way before, way before. So this is all on the preventative side. This mitigates it maintains property reputation and mitigates liability, your tenants feel safe, your vacancy rates will drop. So this is all very avant garde, we feel very progressive.And it's a new way of residency.Because this makes safety a required standard condition of residency. And this benefits even kids, because kids are the most vulnerable, I should know because I was one of them. So and there's more to the certification. But just to keep it simple for the sake of this podcast, that's a summation of it. And we feel that we're moving residency in this direction, I think that this will really catch on, the more that time passes, and the more that Osso Safe gains momentum.

Rory Gill: 12:50

So you actually addressed my the first question I had is whether the combination of education and contracts if it was meant as a deterrence, or if it was meant as a solution to kind of rectify when it happens,but it sounds like the overarching goal is to deter,you know, abuse in the home. In your summation there, I have a you know, a series of questions and kind of the first one that comes to mind, because unfortunately, we've seen this in our office is violence among unrelated people. So the roommate situation, we've seen that, you know, has your model been used before for, you know,roommate situations where you have kind of a household but an unrelated household?

Sabrina Osso: 13:30

Oh, it applies, it applies because in all leases,you have to state and you know,because you're a real estate broker, you have to state who is in the residence. So it's all residency, even dorm dorms, this could be applicable in dormitories really, because it's all it's all part of residency.So whether you're married or not married, boyfriend, girlfriend,you could be living with your ex, you could be living with your grandparents, your aunts,your uncles, roommates, as you stated, it's applicable, we made it where it's applicable,whatever your living environment is, so, so no one should beat the crap out of anyone. No one should verbally physically sexually abuse anyone. So it definitely carries over to all residency. And obviously fine tune - we improve we tweak as we go along. But we're definitely making it where that it applies to every living situation,because that's how it shouldn't be, quite frankly,

Rory Gill: 14:37

Across it, whether we're talking about just people working together in an investment, I always like having people formalize their arrangements just because it sets a good expectation of what's to come. So I hear that in the contract that you've created here, saying that if there is an abuser, the abuser is going to be the one that loses the the ability to stay in the home. But unfortunately,when I kind of think about some of the legal aspects of that I know that there are 50 states and everything works a little bit differently, unfortunately,has this been tested in court with the eviction, you know, has anybody ever been removed from housing from, you know, as a result of misbehavior?

Sabrina Osso: 15:12

This is new. And I'm doing as many podcasts as possible to market this to get this out there to let people know that we exist, that such a product exists that such a company exists. So I'm trying to market this in every way possible. And we do consult with a small team of lawyers on a regular basis. And one of those lawyers is a family law expert.That's what she specializes in is in family law. And when she looked at my policy, and I had her review it I had her her and also another attorney actually,who was a prosecutor in domestic violence situations. And they said that - Wow Sabrina, you are actually short circuiting the entire process in a good way,like What the Osso Save certifications, it's almost as if you don't need courts, you don't need to even go to court,because you're nipping it right in the bud right in residency,you're resolving it right in residency. What do you need child protective service agencies and lawyers and mediators and parent coordinators and judges, you're resolving your right and residency because the abuser is out. And as you know, in real estate, right now, the way things are, as a landlord, or as a property owner, you're stuck with the abusive family, right?And then all of your well-behaved, non abusive tenants, they leave, right because they hear police come to the residence or to the unit they hear yelling and screaming,maybe things are breaking, kids are screaming, so they leave.Well, we're looking to flip all of that, why should your well-behaved or your non-abusive tenants leave? It's the abuser that has to leave and leave everybody else intact. Everybody else who is doing what they're supposed to do in residency, so we're flipping all of that, and these attorneys that we consult with on a regular basis, like I said, we we have everything,check with them to make sure that everything is cohesive with- we live in New Jersey we're in we're based in New Jersey, to make sure that everything is in order, if you will. And we're looking to make this state by state by state, you know, so I hope I answered the question.

Rory Gill: 17:36

Yep, this process intrigues me a little bit, in part because I've seen some aspects of the court system work in ways that actually do just the opposite, where they cement the abuser into place. And you know, there are the immediate victims in the household. But from some of the work I've done with landlords that impacts the the neighbors in neighboring units, it sours the the entire home, you know, less severely,but it's sours the home for everybody else. It makes the landlord's experience very difficult as they tried to navigate something outside of their realm. So I ask where it's held up, because I'm intrigued by the idea, and I hope that it does get held up a, you know,does meet the test of the court system, because I've seen it,the courts do some pretty bad things, either just by delaying the action, or worse. The other application that I see something like this helping is unfortunately in cases of divorce where some legal advice that I've heard other divorce attorneys say no, this is something that, you know, this is not advice I've ever given,but where they've asked people to try to stay in the home as long as possible, even if it's a terrible situation to help them preserve their rights to title to the home in a divorce or their rights to custody later on. And that's not a good situation for anybody to try to just tough it out as long as possible. But I've heard that advice given before and I hope arrangements like this can help get ahead of that kind of terrible situation.

Sabrina Osso: 19:34

Right. So, no I understand. To answer your first question, which is about with landlords and souring the rest of the family unit, if you will,or the rest of the building.Right? Well, we feel that this will actually it will resolve a lot of issues. And this puts everybody responsible in a way because everybody, we always put the responsibility of safety in the victim, the victim, right?That's the way of society. But with the Osso Safe certification, it's kind of it's the burden is not on any one person and it's not really an burden is not even the right word. It's everybody's responsible for their safety.The landlord, the property manager, the superintendent, the tenant, the husband, the wife,whatever you're living around judgment is, so it's not just on one person and where you're expected to leave. And so like we said, this is all - you're held to a higher regard a higher standard in an Osso Safe certified property. And we feel that people this will really catch on and people will demand that they want to live in a in an Osso Safe certified property because they feel like wow, my kids will be safer. I don't have to worry about some sex offender in the building. And even if there is one, well, we have systems and mechanisms in place to evict them or to keep them on watch and say, Look, you're going to be held responsible because you're in an Osso Safe certify property safety is on the forefront. It's the focal point of residency. So we feel that this will really resonate with people very on a positive level on multiple levels. So I hope I answered that question.

Rory Gill: 21:24

You know, I want to to speak a little bit to those who listen to the podcast, who are landlords and investors. You know, aside from subscribing to Osso Safe system, what are just some advice that you could give to landlords and how they can make the homes those homes safer.

Sabrina Osso: 21:39

Which is probably pretty obvious, hire us hire us to get us into your buildings,get us into your whatever it is,it could be a two family or multifamily dwelling, we feel that this will be the future of residency. And when I say future, I mean now, not in a couple of years right now. If anything that COVID has done on a positive level is to really shed a light on how important it is for residency to be safe.Because our homes have become our schools for our kids. And our workplaces, if you will. So if your home is not safe, well,there goes your workplace. And there goes your schooling for your kids and your residency period. So it has highlighted that so I feel that landlords,they need to be more to talk about it. And we make this very easy, if you will, because we have the seminar, we talk about it, we say look, we don't allow,and we have systems in place and technology to say wow, it picked up a rape or a would be rape. It picked up you pulling her hair,it picked up you beating the crap out of your kid. So that's the technology portion of it.That that I think is a new way of residency, if you will, but landlords, you could say, I don't speak to your tenants before they even enter. I don't tolerate any abuse, we're pro safety. And that means beyond the asbestos and making sure that it the heat and hot water and electricity and central air and concierge and all the amenities. We have to talk about it to say, to educate on warning signs to say look, we care about what happens behind the four walls beyond signing the leases,being really open in that manner. Because in fact, when I speak to people, and I am a real estate agent, landlords say Sabrina the first and foremost problem that we have as landlords is domestic violence and we don't even like to to call it that we prefer to say home violence because it's more inclusive. And a man could be a victim. For sure. So it's it's whatever makes up your home environment. So and I want to say to landlords and to your audience to investors don't think that you're a bad person,because you will have problems with tenants. All of us do. So don't think that it's you like oh my gosh, like what did I do?No, this doesn't happen in my building. It is happening and don't feel ashamed. There are 15million children that witnessed violence in their own homes each and every year. One out of three women will be beaten or raped in her lifetime, one out of seven men is abused. 324,000 pregnant women go into the emergency room not for pregnant related issues before abuse related injuries.80% of all runaways come from violent homes. I could go on and on with statistics. The point is these people live in our residences in our buildings. So don't think that I must be a bad landlord. I must be a bad person. No, that doesn't happen here. It's happening. So face it, say okay, accept it. But do what you need to do in order to make your building safe. Provide the education get it into your leases hire aus. Get your property Osso Safe certified.You'll be a better landlord. And we are actually speaking to insurance companies and and other professionals, where it's more of an incentive for landlords to get their properties Osso Safe certified because their insurance rates will go down and their property values will go up. Because our logo will be right in front of their building, and that way any pedestrian traffic, any vehicle traffic, people looking for a place to live? Wow, I know what that logo means. It means it's home violence conscious, they promote safety. I would rather live in a building that is home violence conscious that is Osso Safe certified versus one that isn't. So that's a plus for a landlord. I hope I answered the question. I know what I go off on a tangent, but to address your divorce question. Again,this applies for divorce couples, too. And we feel that the more successful that Osso Safe is the laws will bend to what we are doing. And I've said this multiple times in different apartment associations, property owner associations, it has to go this way. Because safety has to be on the forefront. And that's period. And we will see to it that that happens.

Jason Muth: 26:43

It looks like you're approaching the business in the right way from a few different angles. You know, you're speaking with the owners of real estate, you're speak with landlords and you're talking their language, you're saying we're going to make your property more attractive, like you know, what you're looking to do is keep people safe,obviously, but like in speaking to landlords saying, we're going to make your situation easier for you and more attractive,we're going to attract better tenants, that won't be abusive,we're going to have a better situation with a multifamily dwelling. And by approaching insurance companies saying listen with the certification,you know, we have some guarantees here, maybe there's a way that you could help with rates for some of the landlords as well, you know, I think about the Simplisafe logo that stuck on the door at the building that we're in right now. You know,and that shows that, hey, my property is secured by Simplisafe, right. And that sticker is enough of a deterrent for some people that are looking to break into the house saying I don't want to break in the house. You know, so if you have a sticker on the door, saying it's an Osso Safe property, you know, that's a declaration that saying we're not going to tolerate this year. I mean, you know, Rory requires his agents to be Realtors, members of the National Association of Realtors, he has his own certifications as an attorney,you know, the certifications that institutions put forward.They don't do it just as a as a money grab, they do it because they want you to be proud that you've gone through some training, or through some coursework that shows that this is who you are, you know, as a certified individual. So you know, I think that what you're looking to do, or what you are doing with Osso Safe is a really interesting angle. And I think you're approaching it in all the right ways.

Sabrina Osso: 28:59

Thank you so much.Thank you for the positive feedback. And, you know, our thinking our train of thought is landlords, property owners,property managers, even if you're a single homeowner, you should be rewarded, financially rewarded for keeping your residents safe. That's how it should be you and your property should be worth more getting the technology installed, having the education having people sign the policy, we feel that people will be proud to like you said to be living in an Osso Safe sort of by property. And our technology will have multiple applications.And one of the applications we're looking to have this for is also real estate agents when they do open houses, and they're alone, the app will detect violence or would be violence because and it goes to the broker or it goes to the police.Because we're in these situations, right? People operate on good faith, but also

Jason Muth: 30:02

Well, I really appreciate your explaining what they operate on bad faith where that where they have bad intentions, like Beverley Carter, who was murdered, I'm Osso Safe is all about, and you're so well versed on on this sure we're familiar with that name in Arkansas, that real estate agent who was murdered,she did a showing for a cash topic. And before we move to our final questions and learn about investor. And he kidnapped her and she was murdered. And they found her body aways from the property that she showed an abandoned home or something. And so this will have multiple how people can get a hold of you, Sabrina, one last question applications. And we really we just feel that what we have been doing has not been working. And we feel that also safe as the I have for the two of you, since you're both real estate agents,solution to a lot of problems regarding safety regarding kids not being safe at home, abusers,rapists, pedophiles, sex,you know, I did mention that we had an episode a long time ago traffickers, sexual predators,we're doing our best to kind of take care of all of the scenarios and we will we will about Open House safety for real estate agents. And we just, you improve as we go along. But we feel that this is a the new way of living the new way of residency.know, you just told a terrible story about the agent, Arkansas,what are some things that the two of you do either yourselves or with your agents that lean into safety when you're conducting open houses?

Sabrina Osso: 31:37

Well, we are taught repeatedly, make sure that your clients go first in the property. So make sure that you're that you are behind your clients at all times, or as much as possible that you are not in front of them, to have someone else with you at open, at open houses or showings. Although that is very difficult, you know, and you shouldn't have to do that, right? You shouldn't,especially as a woman, you shouldn't have to do that. But they do say that to always work in pairs, work in pairs or showings, work in pairs at open houses. No matter the time of day or night. They say the usual thing like bring mace have mace with you, make sure that you have someone that knows where you are at all times. But I have to say all of the precautions are secondary. What we need to do is raise our boys not to become abusers, rapists,pedophiles, sex traffickers and sexual predators when they grow up. And that starts right when they're very young. And that's-please don't misunderstand me that's not to say that women are not abusive that they can't be abusive, most certainly they can be and they are - but I went to a a seminar that I wished my brokerage firm made it mandatory, I just went on my own. And the real estate agent or the cop, I think it was an undercover policeman, it was so powerful. He walked in, he was very thin, pretty thin. And he had on suit. And the way he opened up his seminar, and this is for real estate safety, he walks up to the front of the room, and he pulls out all of his weapons. I could not believe my eyes how many weapons he had on him. He had, I'm not exaggerating about 25 ways to take someone down a gun, rope, a knife, a machete, a pen, a cord,a hammer, he had all of this on him and all hidden. And he was pretty thin. It wasn't like he was a big guy with big pockets.And it was a real eye opener to me how skilled these criminals are. So I would say having your agents go to the seminars and making it mandatory is really important. So I'm sorry, Rory did I take up your time? But these are some of the ways that you know, to try to stay safe on my end.

Rory Gill: 34:19

Yeah, no, I mean, I don't have a lot to add. Because this is unfortunately we're it feels as though we have a series of just small good ideas that maybe work together. But for private showings, we've recently started requiring IDs being logged for all of our private showings as a way to, you know,deter certain people. And most importantly, we let people know in advance that we're when we meet for the first time, we're going to be checking your ID.And that's just one way to maybe deter a certain type of abuser.

Sabrina Osso: 34:48

Right? Yeah, I've heard that. Yes.

Jason Muth: 34:51

I mean, it's a lot to think about. And, you know,for everyone listening to this podcast, you know, rewind it,listen to it again, you know,because this is a serious topic that, you know, we need to have safe spaces for our homes, and we need to be safe when we're working in this industry. And,you know, we appreciate all the comments on this. And, you know,I think that if you were to just check out Sabrina's website,which is ossosafe.com. And we'll put this in the show notes. You know, there's a whole lot of information there. A lot of the talks you've done, I think the videos are on there, they're up on YouTube, you know, so we'll make sure everyone knows how to find all that in the show notes for the episode. So why don't we ask the final few questions that we ask of all of our guests just as a way to wrap it up and you know, learn a little bit more about you beyond just the work that you're doing. The first question that you've had a TEDx conversation right your you are a TEDx speaker. So it's about this topic, but if you can get on stage and not prep anything30 minutes talking about anything in the world because you know it so well. Probably not related to your your work.What would that be?

Sabrina Osso: 35:49

Dance, anything dance, all dance just ballet,jazz theater, Latin, partnering,point, tap. Yeah, all dance. And it is related to Osso Safe because we do incorporate that with Osso Safe, especially when we go into schools and universities. But, but yeah,dance.

Jason Muth: 36:10

Dance seems like it's getting more and more popular. You see it all over TV now, you know, with all the competition shows, you know,obviously it's been around I grew up outside New York City and you know, the clubs are you know, near and dear to a lot of New Yorkers' hearts. We watched I don't know if you watch Pose the series Pose on FX, but it was all about the ballroom scene in the, I guess in the 80s. It was a big, big dance related show. And our daughter loves dancing, like she's probably gonna have to do dance lessons soon. She always slips on her slippers. She calls them and then she starts dancing.

Sabrina Osso: 36:42

That's great. Yes,yes, I have to catch that Pose.I have to look into that.

Jason Muth: 36:47

Yeah, go look into it. It's a great series. Second question. You might have answered this. Also. It's the whole basis of Osso Safe, but maybe there's something else has happened, that you've learned about in the business world? You know, what is it that that happened earlier on in your life or career that is affecting the weather you're working today?

Sabrina Osso: 37:03

Just turning my pain into power over and over again. Fortunately, and unfortunately, I mean, more fortunately, obviously. But I'm very determined to make as we said in the interview, no one should live with abuse,violence, chaos, dysfunction, no one. So there's enough problems to solve. And none of those problems should be having to live like like as if you're with a terrorist, by far. So I would say all of my childhood trauma has fueled Osso Safe.

Jason Muth: 37:40

Right, powerful statement. Our final question for you is what are you listening to or watching or reading these days?

Sabrina Osso: 37:47

I loved the Limelight. That was my favorite club in the city. So I have to get Peter Gatien, he was the owner of the Limelight. So it's not a book that I've that I that I have yet, but it's on my list.So I have to get that book,especially now that I said it on your podcast, so I have to go get it. And it's I forgot the title of it. But um, he wrote,like an autobiography. And like I said, it was so freeing. And I thank him for that whole club scene. It was so liberating for me. So that's a book that I definitely have to get an i It slips my mind right now. But he wrote it recently, within the year,

Jason Muth: 38:32

I'm sure a couple of quick keystrokes on Google and we could probably all find it very easily, so.

Sabrina Osso: 38:36

yes, yes. Yeah. I think the Club King, maybe the Club King, something like that.Yeah.

Jason Muth: 38:42

Look for that. And we'll add that to the show notes. Also, if we could find it. So Sabrina, can you tell us how people can get a hold of you if they have any questions or want to learn more about Osso Safe.

Sabrina Osso: 38:53

Sure, you stayed in my website, ossosafe.com. My direct email is Sabrina@ossosafe.com. I am on all the major social media platforms, LinkedIn, Facebook,Twitter, Alignable, Instagram,my TEDx Talk is out there. I also have a YouTube so anyone can just do to Sabrina Osso, but also Osso Safe Kids. It's a platform that I've created recently, about six months now.I'm speaking to all kids, both ones that are safe at home, and ones that are not to talk openly about their abuse, and to say that they want to live in a Osso Safe place. I have wristbands made with the Osso Safe Kids word and words on it. And I'm trying to get this into schools,but kids shouldn't I want to mention in an Osso Safe certified property, kids have rights. And we don't wait until they're 18 for them to be able to speak on their own behalf. If they're five, six years old,they have a say, in a Osso Safe certified property. So that's that's ingredients for another interview, I think, because waiting until they're 18 is way too late. So yeah, so that's how people can find me. And I want to thank you and Rory again for the opportunity.

Jason Muth: 40:16

Yeah, thank you for sharing your story and explaining Osso Safe and the origin of your business and you know what it takes to build a business like this, and what goes into being an Osso Safe environment. So you know, we'll look forward to seeing how your story evolves. And we'll have to follow up and learn more about Osso Safe Kids also once that's off the ground further.

Sabrina Osso: 40:37

Absolutely.

Jason Muth: 40:38

Rory, where can people find you if they have questions?

Rory Gill: 40:41

They can find me at my brokerage's website. NextHome Titletown that's nexthometitletown.com or my law practice's website for UrbanVillage Legal, urbanvillagelegal.com.

Jason Muth: 40:51

And we'll put all those links in the show notes along with all the links to find Sabrina relatively easily. So thank you once again. Thank you for sharing everything Sabrina,and thank you for listening to the real estate law podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode, we would encourage Are you to like us or subscribe to our YouTube channel, or give us a review on iTunes that really helps get our message out to more folks. So on behalf of The Real Estate Law Podcast, I'm Jason Muth and thank you so much for listening.Thank you. Thank you.

Announcer: 41:20

This has been The Real Estate Law Podcast. Because real estate is more than just pretty pictures. And law goes well beyond the paperwork and courtroom arguments. were powered by NextHome Titletown greater Boston's progressive real estate brokerage. More at nexthometitletown.com and UrbanVillage Legal,Massachusetts real estate counseling serving savvy property owners, lenders and investors more at urbanvillagelegal.com. Today's conversation was not legal advice, but we hope you found it entertaining and informative.Discover more at realestatelawpodcast.com Thank you for listening!