The Real Estate Law Podcast

42 - Become a Top 1% Public Speaker Right Now with Rockstar Communications Coach Brenden Kumarasamy

March 15, 2022 Jason Muth + Rory Gill Season 1 Episode 42
The Real Estate Law Podcast
42 - Become a Top 1% Public Speaker Right Now with Rockstar Communications Coach Brenden Kumarasamy
Show Notes Transcript

Public speaking is a very difficult topic for both introverted and extroverted professionals. And it's hugely important in the worlds of real estate and law, whether hosting an open house, heading to court for closing arguments, or simply trying to put together a deal at the negotiation table.

In this episode, we're speaking with professional communicator Brenden Kumarasamy, the founder of MasterTalk, which began as a YouTube channel in 2019 that he started to help the world master the art of public speaking and communication.

Fast forward thousands of subscribers, countless public speaking and coaching engagements, and hundreds of podcast appearances, and Brenden has turned his passion into a business, just having secured the official trademark for MasterTalk!

Some of the most successful entrepreneurs once trembled at the thought of speaking in public. It's not simple.

So we thought Brenden would be an excellent guest to give some pointers and coaching advice from his years of experience, and he did not disappoint. We almost feel as though we should be sending him a huge check for his time and wisdom!

In this episode, we talk about:
-- How and why Brenden started MasterTalk
-- The immense value of in-person meetings as opposed to virtual ones
-- The 3 key differences between presenting in an online world versus the real world
-- How would your business change if you were an exceptional communicator?
-- The difference between exceptional communicators and people who are just great
-- Really specific and simple actions that can pull your audience into your words
-- A simple way to remember personal details about your Top 10 Clients
-- Practicing your answers to common questions with Question Drills
-- Overcoming fear when the camera light is red and you're speaking on video
-- What it means to be an expert
-- How to use pressure as a benefit

Get in touch with Brenden Kumarasamy:
MasterTalk website - https://www.mastertalk.ca/
MasterTalk on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/MasterTalks/videos
MasterTalk on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/mastertalkyt
Rockstar Communicator website - https://www.rockstarcommunicator.com/
Brenden on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/masteryourtalk

Join Jason Muth and Attorney / Broker Rory Gill of NextHome Titletown and UrbanVillage Legal in Boston, Massachusetts for another episode of The Real Estate Law Podcast!

#bostonrealestate #communicationskills #presentationskills #realestatepodcast #nexthome #realestate #realestateinvesting #publicspeaking #realestateinvesting #publicspeakingtips #mastertalk #rockstarcommunicator
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Brenden Kumarasamy:

So the way that I see this is there are key differences between presenting in an online world, the one that we're in right now as we're speaking, and the quote unquote, real world. So let's go through those three key differences. The first one is the idea of eye contact. So when we're in a virtual setting, like a zoom call, whether there's two people or 1,000 people, all I have to do is continuously look at the camera lens, and I'll give the illusion as if I'm looking at everyone straight into their eyes.

Announcer:

You found The Real Estate Law Podcast, because real estate is more than just pretty pictures. And law goes well beyond the paperwork and courtroom argument. If you're a real estate professional, or looking to build real estate expertise, then welcome to the conversation and Discover more at realestatelawpodcast.com.

Jason Muth:

Welcome to another episode of The Real Estate Law Podcast. I am one of your hosts Jason Muth and I'm trying something different with our intro right now. I learned something from our guests. First of all, I'm very intimidated by this episode. And you'll understand why. We have a professional communicator on this episode. And Brenden Kumarasamy, also known as just Brenden, as he just said to us, he taught me something about pauses. I'm using pauses, I've watched one of your videos and the pauses that we have in what we're speaking about, should emphasize what we're saying. How'd I do, Brenden?

Brenden Kumarasamy:

I'm excited to be on too. Thanks for having me,

Jason Muth:

Rory, I was practicing that intro and then hear you come in stumbling on top of our guests, just like gangbusters like the Kool Aid guy.

Rory Gill:

It makes it more authentic.

Jason Muth:

We have a great guest on for this episode. And I know with The Real Estate Paw podcast, we tend to talk about real estate, talk about law, talk about anything tangential in those fields. And something that is universal is good communication. And Brenden reach out to us and said, Hey, I love what you guys are doing. I think I'd love to talk to your audience because we have some great information about how to communicate well. And immediately I looked up - I didn't know Brenden, I didn't know you. I looked you up before I wrote back to you and saw your YouTube videos and your website. I was like we got to get him on. Because there's something about the way that you teach people with your YouTube videos and your courses that is very effective. And I think there's so many things I've taken from watching the YouTube videos in the time that I have that I just pulled a few things out of it. Eye Contact. Pauses. Speaking to the right people in the room, like I don't want to spoil the fun because you're the expert here. But like I have so much stuff to ask. So Brandon, welcome to The Real Estate Law Podcast.

Brenden Kumarasamy:

Very kind and generous intro you too. Thanks for having me on. It's really an honor.

Jason Muth:

So let's just get to know you first. And then we could talk about some of the great ways that you can teach people who are listening, many of whom are in the real estate world or in the law world, how they can be better and more effective communicators. So first off, tell us where you live. Like, you know, tell us you know what your background is like kind of what you do professionally. And yeah, that's a good starting point.

Brenden Kumarasamy:

Yeah, absolutely. Jason and Rory. Very happy to do that. It's based in Montreal, Canada, I lived there my whole life. And that's where the story begins. For me, you know, my parents looked at when I was five years old when they a long, long, long time ago. And they said, hey, you need to go to French school. And I asked them why. They said, well, if you want to thrive in Montreal, you need to know to speak the language. So my whole life not only was I scared of communication, like most of us, I had to give presentations in a language I didn't even know. So when why audience or my parents or the people in my classroom would speak fluently in French, I would look at the crowd and say a bonjour? And that was pretty much my life growing up as a kid and then you know things one thing led to another and here we are today with MasterTalk and what I do full time.

Jason Muth:

Rory is is the time that I embarrass you and tell Brenden and everyone here that you studied in France for half a semester and I keep saying you're fluent but you're not.

Rory Gill:

I'm absolutely not in this is I'm already I'm already on edge enough to make sure that my English speaking is is good enough for this episode.

Jason Muth:

We won't break into good communication using the French language. Let's focus on English here. We will go to French later on. So MasterTalk Brande,n, this is your full time thing right? This is what you do professionally.

Brenden Kumarasamy:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it would be interesting as well as talk about the story behind it. So when I was in university guys are used to this thing these things called case competitions. Think of it like mood court but for the business world. So while other guys my age were doing, you know baseball or basketball or rugby or something else that's really dangerous that I'm clearly not really a fit for. I did presentations competitively. For the lawyers who are listening they probably get this because they used to do moot court when they were in law school. So a bunch of executives would come into rooms give us business problems. And then as young people in their 20s, we would solve these problems for them. And the best students would get jobs in management consulting, investment banking, think McKinsey, IBM, Deloitte, etc. So that was my world. When I was in university, I had no intention of being a public speaking coach, yet alone an entrepreneur, I thought being an entrepreneur meant being poor, those like might as well get a six figure job at a corporate out of uni, and just work there. But what happened guys was, as I was getting good at case competitions, I started coaching other students when I was around 19-20 years old, on how to speak and communicate ideas, simply because we didn't have a Communication Coach, we couldn't really afford one. And that's what happened after university. So I got a great job at IBM as a consultant there, I worked there for two, three years. But on the journey there, I realized that everything I was teaching the students for like, three, four years, wasn't available free on the internet. And that's what prompted the beginning of MasterTalk. I really just started making videos in my basement. And then one thing led to another and I started picking up clients at the C-Level and VPs, and one crazy stuff happened. And now I do this full time. That's the story.

Jason Muth:

You mentioned, while we were talking, before we hit record that you've been just recently to New York, and you said Arizona, Florida, like your travels take you I'm guessing all around the country, all around Canada, all around the United States, maybe all around the world, and you're speaking to groups, right, is that you're going to conventions? Or are you speaking to private associations, like you know, tell us more about that?

Brenden Kumarasamy:

Yeah, definitely a mix of activities you do. And similar to what we're going to be talking about this episode, whether you're in real estate, whether in law, it's a people business, right. And for me, most of my time is actually spent just to meet my clients in person. Because that in-person rapport is what really builds the relationship. And that helps you get referrals over the long term. And my mentor tells me this all the time, nothing beats an in-person meeting. You can meet someone resume, you could have 1,000 things in common, but really feel their energy in person. There's a stronger bond there. So I'm literally buying flights just to meet people in person. That's where most of my time goes.

Jason Muth:

How do you feel things have changed since the pandemic where a lot of us are talking in screens on this, like we're recording over Zoom right now, you know, for multiple reasons. But the world is now on Zoom, the world is communicating through webcams. Has that shifted your approach over the past couple years? Have you given new advice to people as to how they can be effective communicators now where there's both a virtual world and we're kind of reemerging back into the real world?

Brenden Kumarasamy:

Yeah, absolutely, Jason. So the way that I see this is there are three key differences between presenting in an online world the one that we're in right now, as we're speaking, and the quote unquote, real world. So let's go through those three key differences. The first one is the idea of eye contact. So when we're in a virtual setting, like a zoom call, whether there's two people or 1,000, people, all I have to do is continuously look at the camera lens. And I'll give the illusion, as if I'm looking at everyone straight into their eyes all at once. But when you're in an in-person meeting, as you to very well know, you need to transfer your eye contact, you get shift your eye contact based on the people in the room. So if there's 10 people in the room, you left center, right, left, center, right, and you keep shifting your body. So you can look at people individually and build that contact. You don't have to do that in the online world, you just got to look at the ones. The second key difference is energy. It's a lot easier to bring out energy, if this was an in-person show, if you were meeting in person, this is a conference, because we feel the energy of other human beings. You don't have that luxury in an online world. So you have to bring more energy to the table. You have to imagine, as if you've already known the people who are listening to the show the people who are on the Zoom call for many, many years. So when I started doing podcasts just probably two years ago, episode one and be like, This is so weird, like a stranger I don't know is asked me questions about my life, that I'm not sure if I even have the answer to. But then after you know a few a few of these shows, kind of just assume that you've known the people for a long time you communicate with them that way. And then the third key difference is access to audience. So in an in-person setting, it's really easy for you to get dinner with the people that were literally listening to you for 45 minutes and get their feedback. Rather than an online setting, you have to force it a bit more. That means you have to intentionally reach out to somebody to get on a call with them, or after something's over once again, intentionally reach out to make sure you get a follow up meeting with them. So this is a three key differences. And to your question, Jason, it creates challenges. So a lot of people got stressed out the beginning of the pandemic, but also creates a lot of opportunity. Because if you're able to master the setting really well, you can actually scale your message a lot more rapidly than in person meetings.

Jason Muth:

Well, you know, things have shifted a lot these past couple years. And, you know, it's been very difficult for some people to re-emerge back into the world. Some of us remember what it's like to have these in-person meetings, and some of us just did them all along. You know, we still see networking events that are happening here in the greater Boston area, which we used to go to a lot. We're going to start going again, once this Omicron surged, kind of pops down. I don't know how bad Montreal got, but things really shut down in Boston. I mean, everyone's still wearing masks and grocery stores and that kind of thing. Which leads me into a question about communication, where we're all wearing masks. What do we do? Like if we're in an in-person setting where we're at a meeting, which I think this is probably going to be consistent, like Rory has a conference in March, right for NextHome? And I bet you probably wearing masks there. How do you do a networking situation where you're having a, you know, a cocktail party or an after, after a large auditorium, just heard a speaker and you're trying to get to know your your fellow colleagues, but you're all wearing these K95 masks?

Brenden Kumarasamy:

That's a challenging sensitive questions, they said, I like it, here's the way I would, because a lot of what I'll say will be subjective here. So let me let me go to the principal first, I think applies to everyone. And then you pick the sub category that works for you. The main principle here is pretend as if nobody's wearing masks. That's why you want to interact with people. If you give off the energy that like, I'm a really reserved person, I don't really want to talk to people, that's the result that you'll get. And another piece that I find is really, really helpful in networking settings, is pick out three to four doesn't have to be 40, or four key people that you already know, at the conference, who then introduce you to other people, that's the easiest way to run a cocktail to get the best results, where you go there, and other people are just validating you in the rest of the room. And then you just make it instead of just going to be with the basket going "how's it going? I'm Brenden." But the other pieces, well, depending what your opinions on this, and let's let's look at let's get get too much into that. But I also recommend, you know, if you're young, you know, you're healthy. And you know, omicron these days is really just a cold scientifically speaking, once again, I want to get into a debate about it. So I would, I would say, you know, go to conferences where people were open minded, like, I've been to Florida for the past, you know, five, six times in the last seven months, no one's wearing masks there. Everyone's healthy. I'm fully vaccinated. So, so yeah, that's so that's the other piece is kind of just go to events where people are less stressed out about and focus on that crutch or a bit who want to have those conversations?

Rory Gill:

I'm just going to take it back? You know, let's not date us. So you know, it's good to get away from the COVID and pandemic stuff. I have just a broader question. So if you, professionally speaking, come to the realization that public speaking is important to you. And you should be doing it with more intentionality. How do you? How do you recommend that somebody first take stock and where they are and start, you know, moving forward with public speaking in an intentional way to develop their skills?

Brenden Kumarasamy:

Yeah, great question, Rory. Especially in the context of the two industries you are speaking to in real estate and law, I feel the most important thing that we all need to do is to figure out why it's so important. If there's anything we've learned from Ryan Serhant from Million Dollar Listing, it's that communication sells, right real estate law, it's a people business, because at the end of the day, everyone's really providing the same service. Okay, there might be real estate agents and lawyers who perform a lot better in a specific area of expertise. But if they're not, if people don't like interacting with them, speaking to them working with them, it's really hard to generate business. So especially if you own your own law firm, you're doing a lot of business development, you're a partner at a law firm, or your real estate agent, always understand that communication is what makes the difference between someone who hires Ryan Serhant for like one of the biggest listings in America versus somebody that we don't really know, right? There's a status associated to that brand. So the most important question that all of us need to ask ourselves is How would our businesses change if we became exceptional communicators? I usually like to ask, how would the world change if you became an exceptional communicator? But that's in the context of these industries? How would your business change really help you find the motivation to get the results? Another thing I want to say as well, before we get into the specific tactics are like principle first, is the three types of people who are listening to this podcast right now. So person number one heard the question, okay, how would my business change? If I was an exceptional communicator? Listen to the question, and they never look at the question ever again. Person number two, is writing that question down on a notepad, but still never really reflects on the question. And person number three, is a very, very small percentage of the people listening to this show right now, maybe 1-3% of people are not only writing down that question, but are also either pausing this episode, or waiting for the episode to end and spending 15 minutes reflecting on that question. That's really the meat that I want to cover. It's not the tactic. It's the reflection that really matters. So spend time reflecting on that question, and you'll find the motivation to get the results that you you're looking for in your business,

Jason Muth:

I think you must be a sorcerer or a magician. Because as I was writing down the question, How would my business change if I was an effective communicator, you said, there's three people. And the second one was just exactly me what I was doing, which is writing it down, and I started writing it down before you said, people are probably writing it down. So I'm blown away. But you know, you've done so many of these I'm sure that you've made meaning speaking engagements, and given a lot of great advice, that I'm not surprised that you know us the audience better than we know ourselves.

Brenden Kumarasamy:

I love what you said there, Jason. I want to tap on because it's so good that you said that because I literally say exactly what you just said word for word. So it's cool that somebody else besides me said that. That's the difference between exceptional world class communicators and people who are just great is that they understand their audiences, sometimes even more than the understand themselves. I am so obsessed with my audience, that I literally know how to respond to seven year old girls who can't afford my communication services. So let's say somebody like Sally is pulling my shirt at a conference and going oh, like how do I speak better? Most people who are in that situation will just tap her on the head and say go kid, and they'll walk away. Whereas what I'll spend the time doing and this and for viewers listening was in lawn real estate you kind of like, what does the seven year old have to do with me? It has everything to do with you. So pay attention. I'll literally crouch down to her level and say, Sally, I'll tell you the secret on how to become an exceptional communicator. But can you promise me that if I told you you won't tell anyone? So then Sally would go, Oh, yeah, I want to know. And then I tell her, now go share that beautiful smile of yours to the world, and you'll be a great communicator. So then she gets red in the face and some well dressed and stuff. And then she'll present because what she's looking for is not my advanced booklet on how to change pace and vocal variety. She's looking for boosting confidence. She's saying, hey, Rory, hey, Jason. Hey, Brenden, my whole seven years of living on this planet, nobody told me I could be an exceptional communicator, could you be the first one? When you have dinner with your audience. When you obsess over them. You'll learn details about the industry that nobody else is thinking about?

Jason Muth:

We're gonna have to do that with our, our daughter our almost three years old at this point, you know, because giving her secrets, it makes her feel like special, right? Oh, I know, something that other people don't know. And then you give her a compliment too? And then you say Go share it. That's it's really poignant.

Rory Gill:

I wrote that down in the context of my, my agents, I want to, you know, make sure that I'm doing what I can to and encouragement in that confidence instead of just peering right to the tactic, so I'm, I'm glad you started off the conversation and emphasize this point, because that's the note that I just took them circled when I work with my agents to develop to develop their communication skills.

Jason Muth:

Rory could I just jump in really quickly with one other thing that Brenden just did? And he probably does this all the time? Maybe he knows he does it? Maybe he doesn't know he does it. But at the end of my soliloquy of just, you know, leading up to question, he pulled the last line or two out of my question and said, You know what, Jason? That's a really great question. I'm very glad you asked that, or something along that line. And I noticed that and I said, Wow, what a great way to pull me into his response. Just those little things. Like I think those are things that we all could learn to do a little better if we just take the time to take a deep breath, to take a pause, to listen to the people we're speaking to, and then pull things out of what they're saying. And revalidate what they're saying.

Brenden Kumarasamy:

I love that you're catching on to granularity. I'll even go further because you caught it, which is amazing. I even push this to an extreme that most people don't even think about in any industry. So if you're a lawyer, you're real estate agent listening this right now and you apply this one trick, you're already ahead of like 99% of people that I've coached in my life. And the trick is this. Make a list of your top 10 clients and literally have notepads on your phone with their name. So you literally have a notepad that says Jason right one another notepad, this is Rory. And then as they're talking, you're writing down notes about them. When's their birthday? What do they care about? You know what, like the new dress that they bought something like that, just family members to just don't do it too many also, you'll get drained. Because just too many folks to keep track of. But if you do that with your top 10 clients, and you start reiterating what they said three weeks ago, how does this Jason guy remember all this to how does Rory remember that? And you'll be able to build a super intimate relationship with them that almost nobody can do in the industry.

Jason Muth:

I actually have a note in my notepad on my phone, which is which is titled neighbors. And living here in Boston. We moved into where we live seven years ago or so. six units in our building. There's six next door there's 18 next door, all three were built around the same time. So it's like a whole bunch of new people were moving in here. And then since having our daughter you know, we've been at the park a lot and we're a daycare a lot. So like, there's basically a number of situations that we're meeting people in passing where we see them on a regular basis. And the only way I can keep track of it was by having a note where I would literally write their first name down, maybe if I knew their dog's name, or their daughter's name, or their son's name, or their spouses name, and I have a running list. And there'll be times I was walking our dog when she was alive. And I'd see one of these neighbors down the street. And I'd literally pull my phone out quickly to remember what their name was so that I could say their name when I said hi to them. And I think people thought I was crazy for doing this. But it really helped. Rory, Rory has a ton of questions about real estate and communication and some good tips that you might be able to help with that. So let me throw it over to Rory because I know that specifically in the real estate world communication, as you mentioned bridge earlier, is, you know, really the answer to success or not.

Rory Gill:

Yeah, so I just I feel like it'd be missing out if I didn't ask for a couple of tidbits and tactics. And no, that's not the main thrust of our conversation in just this hour. But you know, are that for somebody who's kind of just finding their footing with public speaking? What are a couple more basic tactics that they could use to, to become more confident and to become a little bit more a little bit more skilled?

Brenden Kumarasamy:

Absolutely. Rory. So let me go through three techniques, besides the ones that we talked about earlier, that will really help people get the return. But the one thing I want to emphasize is all this information is useless if you don't apply it. So if I say the notepad analogy, but you're not taking out the notepad like Jason was alluding to earlier, and you're actually taking the notes, you're not going to get the ROI for the time you're spending on this episode, be sure you're implementing. So it's the first piece the most important tip is exercise that I call Question Drills. So Question Drills is simply this preemptively guess every possible question that you can get asked in the industry, or in your business, so that when you get asked the question, you're able to re-answer that question. Oh, sorry, respond in a succinct and clear way. I'll give you an example. Let's say me, Jason, and Rory are on a team together. And we're trying to get better at answering questions from prospects as a real estate agent. So what we'll do as a team, what so we put Rory on the hot seat, not for today, just use as an example, what me and Jason will do is we'll make a list of questions that normally prospects would ask real estate agents, but also sneak in a couple of questions that we think Rory doesn't know the answer to. Talk about your first experience with your first client, Rory. What was that experience like? And then where it's going to be like, Whoa, like, no one asked me about my first client. That's a weird question as and what this does, is it forces somebody like Rory who is in the hot seat to think about questions and how to answer them in a very safe environment, because there's no there's no lost business here. It's just us kind of having a discussion. And every question that Rory doesn't know the answer to there might be 10, or 20%, where it's just like, Whoa, that was very esoteric, it was an odd question. He's going to ask me and Jason, how we would have answered that question. And he's going to take notes on this. And what happens is you become absolutely bulletproof as a salesman or woman. Because when you get asked questions, let's say on this podcast, there isn't a single question that somebody can ask about communication, I don't already know the answer to because I've questioned drilled myself so many times, and asked myself so many questions that there's rarely a question that catches me off guard. And since real estate, in that business, specifically, as an agent, everything is people. The most important thing is not necessarily what you say, but how you respond. So if you're responding like this, oh, I don't really know. Oh, yeah. Should I cut my commission to 3%? I'm not really sure. versus going well, if somebody asks you like a question, what one thing that one of my partners was telling me the other day, one of their clients said, Hey, could you cut down your Commission's fee from 6% to 3%? And the way she answered, It was brilliant. She said, I'm not here to negotiate with you. I'm here to negotiate for you on your behalf. And I thought that was so powerful, because the prospect immediately went, Okay, let's just go with 6%. So that's the key, right? What are the questions that you're getting in the industry, preemptively guess brainstorm together, work together with other real estate agents, don't see them as competition. Because if all three of you work together as a team, you'll be way more solid than any individual real estate agent working together.

Rory Gill:

The other point that I wanted to ask is about video marketing. That's something that's been become very important for us and across other industries as well. And I've taken I've worked with people who are natural communicators in person, and the moment that a camera is put in front of them, they stammer and sweat and get nervous. Do you have any tips for Effective Video Marketing, especially with an eye toward people who are newly adopting this as a marketing strategy?

Brenden Kumarasamy:

Absolutely, Rory. So what I'd say in that context, is let's kind of break down the audience, maybe 90-95% of people really the problem is the fear around posting the first time and then for probably five to 10%. It's really about refining so it's a YouTube it's more about refining your game, getting better at it. So let's address the 90 since that was the question. So on the 90%, what I would say is we need to figure out a way to practice this in a way that's safe in a way where we feel that this is actually helpful to other people. So let me give a small technique on this. And then we can go through the mindset around it. So the technique is really simple. Write down on a piece of paper, five people that you really respect and admire. This could be business partners, it could be family, or just people that you're like, wow. Like, it has nothing to do with money or status. Just people that pour into you, people that absolutely love you make a list of those five people, and then do something that they'll never receive in their life pretty much, which is a video message from you. 20 second video message on Facebook just going, Hey, Jason, you know, really appreciate everything that you do for the family, everything that you do for the business, you're an incredible guy wishing you and already, let's say an incredible week, and you have no idea how much that means to people, because nobody receives video messages. So especially if you're worried about it, don't even worry about posting on LinkedIn, or on Facebook, or any of that stuff I could, I could gospel you all day about the importance of that. But honestly, that's not the priority, the priority is for you to actually see the results for yourself. And trust me, I've had CEOs VPs do that with like the people, the employees that they work with, and people are crying on the other side of the line. They're like, Oh my god, like they see this message they send like paragraphs of thank you notes. And that validation I find is so important, because it helps you realize, especially if you're a beginner to camera presentations, the power of video, the emotion that allows you to create for other people, and also the impact allows you to create. And then last thing on this though I mentioned YouTube on camera is the idea of fear versus message. Write fear versus message. So since we're all wrestling slash fighting fans here, let's use a boxing analogy. Right. So let's assume there's a boxing ring. One side of the ring is the fear. The other side of the ring does the message. So let's say we go into the fear, the fear of posting, right, the the imposter syndrome. The I don't want to do this, what will my mom thing, right? That kind of stuff. And then the other side of the ring is the message. Why are we delivering this message? Why is it important? The goal, my friends is not to remove the fear that is impossible. If Elon Musk called me right now, and said, Hey, I need you to coach me tomorrow, I'd probably shit my pants like, it just doesn't matter how many podcasts I've done, like, I'll be stressed out. So we all have the fear, the goal is not to remove it. There's always something that's scary for any level of speaking. But the key is to make sure that when your message and your fear meet in the middle of the ring, that your message gets the knockout punch every single time. Think about me, I started coaching CEOs and I was 22. Who in the world am I to do that? I had so much insecurity, so much imposter syndrome. So why did I press record? I didn't press record for the 50 year old executive who could afford my packages, I pressed record for the seven year old girl who can't afford me, because there's nobody else that they can relate to on YouTube. So when you know that message and it beats the fear, you'll always win in the end.

Jason Muth:

There's a certain amount of confidence you have to have to make that statement that you just made saying, you know, imposter syndrome. I'm 22-23 in front of these groups, like what am I doing here? I was in that position also in my 20s. I remember I was working with a radio group. I'd spent many, many years in working in the broadcasting business. I've talked about this many times. And I was working with our the station I listened to growing up, which is Z-100 in New York, and I was helping them interpret the results of music tests and Morning Show analyses and focus groups and stuff. And I was like, Who am I like, I don't get how I ended up here in my mid 20s talking to these programming, people giving advice, but somehow it worked. And the most surreal moment I had during that time working for this radio consultancy, was when I was in Madrid, at the top of this building in Madrid, Spain did not speak Spanish, and interpreting the results with my coworker who did speak it in this smoky room on top of a bank building. And I literally had one of those moments of like, how did they end up right here? This second, like how did that happen? And I think I had a degree of confidence that I was like, You know what, screw it, like, I ended up here. So I belong here. And I'm going to get through this meeting and give these guys good advice because they're paying for us to be here. And then you know, on we go and that's I'm guessing something that you were able to do as an you know, early 20-something person working with C-suite folks. Not everyone has that skill, but you do.

Brenden Kumarasamy:

Oh, thank you. It's very kind. Jason, Rory. But the point I want to drive because I think this be helpful. Is is the imposter syndrome right piece that we talked about. So here's here's a trick around this, because I had a lot of it. So let's say for example, since you two live in Boston, that analogy, let's say I came to your town, and I said guys, you know I'm in Boston, I don't really know what do. What should I do? Both you probably tell, Rory might say, Oh, you check out this restaurant go to this place. And you Jason might say, oh, you should go visit this place. Why don't we go get dinner somewhere? Alright, and you'll give give me ideas. Same thing. If you came to Montreal and you said, you know, Brenden, we've been here before. But you know, we're still new to the city. What should we do? I'll probably tell you go to this place eat at this restaurant. But don't you find that odd? Because none of us are tour guides. Our parents are not the mayor of Montreal or Boston, one of these days, I'll be wrong about that. But you know, like we, we don't have any expertise whatsoever. Like, I'm probably a negative expertise when it comes to doing that. So why are we so comfortable, openly sharing that information that we have no expertise in whatsoever. But when it comes to our subject matter, expertise, the place where we actually pour time, or money or resources into, we're afraid to even share one sentence? Why is there a disconnect there. And the reason there's a disconnect, is it goes back down to the definition of what an expert truly means. A lot of us think an expert means having a PhD or a master's degree, which I think is wrong. I think an expert simply means that you're one chapter ahead of the next person in that specific skill set. So in the same way, both of you can probably teach me a lot about real estate and law that I probably don't know. And I have to be taking notes that you two are speaking, you too can also probably learn a bit about communication, and public speaking from me. So the key here is serve the person that you're comfortable serving, I didn't you know, it sounds cool that I started coaching CEOs at 22. But the truth is, I didn't start with them. When I was 19. I coached, people were younger than me, then I coached people my own age, then people older than me, then managers VPs. And it just went up the chain. I just learned everything and made all mistakes for over a year of life. But I started with the people that I was comfortable serving. And that's where the starting point should be.

Jason Muth:

Once again, super spooky because I was legit going to say an expert is somebody who's one chapter ahead. I've said it forever. Like Rory can attest

Brenden Kumarasamy:

Oh yeah?

Rory Gill:

The weekend before you were starting the job or also to another job that I had many years ago where I got this job, running paid search campaigns, and SEO campaigns for a company, oddly enough in France, didn't speak French. Don't speak French. didn't exactly know the subject matter. week before you're starting the job. You went out and you bought But I somehow got the job and convinced them I could do it. And what did we do books, SEO for Dummies and PPC for Dummies. And you just started teaching yourself it and you figured that so long as you're not even a chapter had a couple of pages ahead of everybody else. You were the the expert on the team. And that was the skill you had. So you went on to do PPC and SEO for a French online poker company. And you you adapted pretty quickly. But yeah, that's That's exactly right.

Jason Muth:

Legit one chapter ahead. And if you're listening to this now and you know me in my current world, and current - this was 13 years ago, so trust me, I know this stuff now. But at the time, it didn't seem dirty secret, but you know what fake it till you make it. And you're one chapter ahead, and I had the confidence to go in there and figure it out. And I did. And that's I think, another lesson I'd like to take from all this because, you know, sometimes people don't know how to get in the ring and fight that out. And some you could learn it, and at least have the confidence that you belong there. Brenden, as we're gonna, we're gonna start to wrap this up also, because we're coming up on time and I want to get into our final questions as well. And we want to tell everybody where where they can find you. And we're gonna put it all in the show notes. It's really easy to find you. I'm staring your YouTube page also my other monitor right now I need to ask a couple quick questions from what I'm seeing right here. Okay, so I think you just gave us one of the lessons from UFC, right? Because you have a video about three lessons from UFC, maybe you didn't. But what are those three or what are the other two? If we didn't hear him yet?

Brenden Kumarasamy:

Yeah, absolutely. And I'll have I'll be hard pressed to figure out all three, but I'll remember what I can. So definitely one of them from the video is by a fighter named Israel Adesanya, who's the king of the 185 pounds in the UFC currently, and he had it he had a great quote that I shared in that video on an episode Joe Rogan. And Israel said that pressure is an acquired taste. It's kind of like caviar, right? Some people like caviar, most people don't. And he equates that to pressure. And I think that's so relevant in the context of communication. Because we see pressure, especially in the industry of speaking to a law. Okay, high pressure, the courts high pressure in arbitration, depending on what type of law you do. And in the context of real estate, have I got to close the sale? I got to get the house. So there's so much competition is how do we see pressure as a benefit because if pressure creates diamonds, if pressure allows us to do our best, then we start to see that as a positive we can leverage it in the right way. And especially in communication. If we push to the pressure of just sending those video messages that no other real estate agent is willing to send to their clients, you're able to build better relationships with them, and you'll get more sales, it'll turn out to be more business for you. So see pressure as a way for you to do that correctly. The other piece that I want to emphasize that UFC video, is the idea that nobody remembers beige. Think what the UFC has done so magnificently, is that they're able to promote really strong fighters, even the ones who aren't really well recognized and turn them into icons and personalities. Couple examples I gave in the video, of course, are people like Conor McGregor, who obviously is not beige - he's everything beyond that, where he was able to already market himself, but with the UFC vehicle behind him, he was really able to stand out. And that's really important as well, because you know, whether people like Grant Cardone, a lot, I think, or not, my principle is always what can I learn from somebody, whether I like that individual or not. And what Grant has taught all of us, for the people who are open minded to hear doesn't matter if people like me or not, I still make money at the end of the day. And I feel that's so true. Because if you're willing to be yourself, I'm not saying people should be like Grant Cardone or anything but of anything opposite to that guy. And and I definitely respect the work that he's done. Right, Serhant too like some people are gonna look at that guy and say, I don't like that person. And some people go, I like that person, or the other side of the spectrum. People like Graham Stephen, right? Who is a massive YouTuber in the real estate space, who pretty much just does this full time. You either like the guy or you don't, but it doesn't matter. Because if you're able to stand out, the key is you'll get more people to love you. And that's really what matters.

Jason Muth:

Just like in the UFC, they say in pro wrestling that the best characters are the ones who are authentic, but it's their authentic personality turned up to 11. You know, like, amplified. And Conor McGregor is probably just that I think you get what you see. Just more of it. You know, in the ring and with his personality, that's really good. Why don't we get to our final questions that we ask of all of our guests, and then you could share all the amazing places that people can find you and book you for speaking gigs, and all the all the great work that you do. So Brenden, the first question that we have for you is something literally right up your alley, it is if you can get on stage, which you've done many times and talk for 30 minutes about a subject with zero preparation. And let's say it's not communication, okay, because that's too easy of an answer. What would that subject be?

Brenden Kumarasamy:

Yeah, I ask a similar question to clients. And the question is similar in the sense of, let's say, it's your last presentation ever. And you could only share one sentence, then you die. What would you want that sentence to be? So it's kind of similar, but mine's more dark? Yeah, I like that one. So I'll go better that direction. So what I would do for 30 minutes on that stage, is I will talk about one of the principles that I live by that I kind of figured out in my basement because it rhymed, it sounded cool. And the principle is be insane or be the same. Do you want to be like everyone else, that's totally fine. But if you want to do something magnificent with your life, especially those of you have made it to the end of the podcast or so I don't know how you made it here. So congratulations. But the other piece is, you know, you're someone who's really committed to your growth, right? You've made it, what, 40 minutes into this pod. And that's the type of person who wins. Because if you're crazy, you've stepped into that uniqueness. It's going to be much easier for you to stand out and do something really meaningful with your life. Think about me. I mean, isn't it bizarre? I started literally making YouTube videos not on pranks, not on music. So making videos like public speaking and executive communication tips kind of doesn't make sense, really, on my mother's couch, and I start coach all the CEOs. And I still live in my mother's basement. And so I'm coming to you live right now. I literally the first 300 episodes of my podcast literally on my mattress. I don't own a car. I love Justin Bieber. I can karaoke in eight different languages. I dance alone in my basement for an hour a day. But the reason I say all these things, is it's because of that uniqueness, that allows me to share ideas that are as unique as they can be. Step into that uniqueness. And that would be the speech.

Jason Muth:

I think people are still listening to this 40 minutes in because you're full of sound bites, Brenden. So like, we're still we're both leaning into the podcast. Like, you know, you could tell you have an audience when we're leading into it. Right, Rory,

Rory Gill:

I don't know which soundbite we're gonna pick to market this podcast episode later on. But that's the whole thing. It's a good problem to have.

Jason Muth:

There's so many I'm gonna I'm gonna tell our producers to you know, just pull everything out of this one and just, you know, give me tons of snippets. Okay, our second question, tell us something you happen early on in your life or career that impacts the way that you're working today.

Brenden Kumarasamy:

So many to pick one. I would say for me personally, it was definitely my journey in Case Competition, specifically, a moment in case competition, I'm happy to talk about so when I was in my second year of doing this program where you know, basically and it sounds weird, but we essentially sent all of these students to this competition. It's kind of like the Olympics, but for the business world, you'd have like 50 people against 50 other people from other universities and there's like this big university cup for you. Anyways, bottom line in the second year and I was around 20 I wanted to win that competition because our school never won that specific one. So we spent months on end training I was I was the the crazy leader, as you can probably imagine if that team, so I was sleeping four or five hours a day, training all of those people myself on communication so they can get to a level where the executive, just their minds would just melt at the sight of our students. And then what happened, guys, during the day that we were taking the bus to go to the competition, the competition actually got canceled. So it's kind of like spending your whole life going for the Olympics. And then realizing a month before that the Olympics get canceled. It's that type of feeling. And literally, I went from, like the best like leader, I was leading all these people to now I had the biggest crisis management situation in my life ever. I was 20. And the entire bus was like crying and tears. And I had to manage all of these people. And it was a really stressful situation. So the reason I bring that up, is that taught me so much about leadership, and help to develop the maturity that I need to have at this at this stage of my life to coach people or double my age. So it's not about being like, oh, yeah, you're a coach, all these people? No, it's about developing the wisdom and the maturity to go, yes, you can trust me through transformation, I'm here to serve you. But if it wasn't for that experience, I'd probably still be very immature, which as most 20 year olds are.

Jason Muth:

And that's an experience or situation that a lot of us have found ourselves in the past couple years. I mean, you mentioned the Olympics, the Olympics were supposed to be in 2020. The Summer Olympics were but the 2020 Summer Olympics were in 2021. So all those poor athletes that trained for so long, you know, they had to wait for a year if they were able to compete at all. And I'm sure that, you know, if you're still listening to this podcast, you probably have that situation that's happened, you know, because the pandemic, what's been canceled, that conference was canceled. That sale was canceled, you know, that has happened? How can you react to that and make make a good situation out of it? Finally, in the basement? What are you listening to? Or watching or reading these days? That's, that floats your boat?

Brenden Kumarasamy:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so many to pick from, but what I always like to quote is my favorite book of all time, which is Thirst by Scott Harrison. So for those who don't know, Scott Harrison is the CEO of Charity Water. It's got an absolute machine, you know, he went from nightclub promoter in New York City to growing the largest water nonprofit in America, to half a billion dollars raised. But I think the reason why Scott is so interesting, especially for this industry, is because he's in the nonprofit sector, nonprofit is way harder to play than for profit, because the incentives aren't necessarily as lined up, versus the feeling that you get for capital, Scott's also a magnificent storyteller. So I highly recommend you guys check out the book. And there's a quote that I can share as well that I loved. And Scott shared this on an episode. And he said that the goal is not to live forever, but rather create something that will. And that quote will stick with me for the rest of my life. Awesome.

Jason Muth:

Such great wisdom Brenden, we appreciate it so much that you've shared it with the audience, and you've given us some time out of your busy day, to let us know how to be better communicators. So can you please tell everybody how they can find you online? What are your websites, social media handles, what's the best way to get ahold of you?

Brenden Kumarasamy:

Absolutely. It's such a pleasure you two. Such a great conversation. So definitely two easy ways to connect with lean one is the simple one. Go to YouTube type MasterTalk in one word, and you'll have access to hundreds of free videos on how to communicate and share ideas. And then the second way to connect with me for those who are interested in coaching. Sign up for one of my free trainings where I coach people for free on a zoom call every two weeks and access that. all you have to do is go to Rockstarcommunicator.com to sign up,

Jason Muth:

Rockstar communicator. I feel like we just stole a little bit of your time here. But you know, hopefully this will this will lead to a lot more business for you. And if you're listening to this episode, please support Brenden. I think he's a fantastic communicator and a great business coach, Rory, where can people find you?

Rory Gill:

People can find me just search my name or look and look for me NextHome Titletown nexthometitletown.com or UrbanVillage Legal urbanvillagelegal.com.

Jason Muth:

Alright. And if you need to get a hold of me if you want to be a guest on the podcast or you have other questions, jason@nexthometitletown.com works. And if you're still listening to this and you haven't liked this podcast yet on YouTube, or however you're listening to it, please go ahead and like it give us a great five star review or for nothing less than four write or comments. We love comments. We love some feedback. And we really appreciate your listening to this podcast. So on behalf of Brenden and Rory, thank you so much for listening to the real estate law podcast, right?

Announcer:

This has been The Real Estate Law Podcast because real estate is more than just pretty pictures and law goes well beyond the paperwork and courtroom arguments. were powered by NextHome TitletownG greater Boston's progressive real estate brokerage. More at nexthometitletown.com and UrbanVillage Legal Massachusetts real estate counsel serving savvy property owners lenders and investors more at urbanvillagelegal.com Today's conversation was not legal advice, but we hope you found it entertaining and informative. Discover more at realestatelawpodcast.com Thank you for listening